Is there things to work on to help w/ improv.?

[SpinCycl]

So, I am working on solos, and "filling-in" areas of songs (TABs, or simple chord-only, and even original riffs).

I understand that the pentatonic scales are good for soloing and improv. But, is that all there is to it? It seems that staying in a pentatonic area makes the solo seem - well, boring. Is this because I am not mixing it up well? Or should I throw in some arpeggios?

Everyone will end up having their own style in such things, but I would love to know how some of you developed your solo/improv skills. Not to copy your style, but to give me some more options for my own development.

Thanks a lot.

[wild_axeman]

You need to view chord shapes within the scales and target them.You can even approach them from notes not in the scale if you do it right (i.e. "if it sounds right! ).

If you do this then you should come up with more interesting riffs and melodies.

Then you can expand outward on the fretboard by playing those same notes in other octaves and areas of the neck.Experiment with that until you've gotten everything smoothed out and then maybe try a solo.

A minor pentatonic scale with Am chord in bold:

-5----8-
-5----8-
-5--7---
-5--7---
-5--7---
-5----8- <- you should know the 8th fret is a chord note but I was merely showing how the chord "shape" sits within the scale.


okay now take the same pentatonic scale and see how the CMaj chord fits....

-5----8-
-5--7---
-5--7---
-5--7---
-5--7---
-5----8-

Now play a CMaj to Am progression and those notes in bold are your "targets".Approach them from above or below and build riffs & licks and melodies and solos around them.Use your ears.

Also the "target" notes can be played elsewhere on the fretboard,just find the same notes.And do the same thing,approach them from above or below and use your ears and make up something cool.

[wild_axeman]

You don't have to use those weird funky C and Am chords you can use normal ones like these instead...

C

---
-5-
-5-
-5-
-3-
---



Am

-0--
-1--
-2--
-2--
-0--
----

[Nightwish]

For most guitarists, its easier just to write out the music step by step like this. Yes I saved :-) Take look to see what I mean and try writing your stuff. Then combine lil licks for a great solo.


Riff: Main Riff FInger pick both strings from beging
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------
B:---0------------------10--10--7----------------------------------
G:-------12-14-12--------9---9--8----------------------------------
D:---14-----------14-----0---0--0----------------------------------
A:-----------------------------------------------------------------
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lil Solo: (pick up knob up) (noodle sound)
Rhythm Plays this Played out through the Lead Solo
[H] [H]
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------
B:------12b-14-12~~~~------12b-14-12~~~~---------------------------
G:--14-------------------14----------------------------------------
D:-----------------------------------------------------------------
A:-----------------------------------------------------------------
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lead Solo:
Lead Guitarists Still using the neck pickup (Pick up knob up)
(Hold 17b for 2 seconds)
E:-------15-17h-15p-17h-15p----------------------------12-15h------
B:--17b---------------------17~~~--15b-15b-------------------------
G:---------------------------------15b-15b----------12-------------
D:------------------------------------------17--14--12-------------
A:-----------------------------------------------------------------
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Slight Bend 17b)
E:-12p-15h-12p-15h-17b~~~--15-17h-15p------------------------------
B:------------------------------------17-15p-17h-15p---------------
G:-----------------------------------------------------16p-14p-12~~
A:-----------------------------------------------------------------
D:-----------------------------------------------------------------
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------

E:-----------------------------------------------------------------
B:-----------------------------------------------------------------
G:-12-14-12~~------------------------------------------------------
D:-------------14s--17--14-----------------------------------------
A:-------------------------17--14-------14-------------------------
E:--------------------------------17-15----15-12~~-----------------

(Pentatonic Climb) Then this....
E:--15-17-15---------17^B--15-17-15-17-15-17--19~~--21~---24~~-----
B:------------17~~~------------------------------------------------
G:-----------------------------------------------------------------
D:-----------------------------------------------------------------
A:-----------------------------------------------------------------
E:-----------------------------------------------------------------

E:--24-22----------------------------------------------------------
B:--------24-22----------------------------------------------------
G:--------------24-21----------------------------------------------
D:--------------------24-21----------------------------------------
A:---------------------------24-22---------------------------------
E:----------------------------------24~~~~-------------------------

Key: ^ = Bend Up ~ = Vibrato [H] = Harmonic B = Bend H = Hammer ON P = Pull Off

All and all you still need the feel for the song like I do, PLus I dunno if you like classic rock (Judas Priest, Ac/Dc, Van Halen, etc.) But you know. Anyways that took me a good hour to write. Of course I dint type the whole thing on the message board. I just ran out of glue that is all :-)

[wild_axeman]

Yeah you have to "feel" your way and "use your ears" and "start small." Just use two chords that sound good together and learn how to play over them,play both a "melody" over them and "solo" over them.It'll take a bit of work but then once you can do that try three chords and so forth.

[SpinCycl]

Thanks. What you guys are saying is making sense.

I am finding that staying within the chords is ok, and use the pentatonic is ok too. Then, it helps to once in a while throw in an off-key note or two where appropriate.

Now, it's just a challenge to play the solo the same way each time... It's not a bad thing, but it's hard to practice it well if it's different each time. I guess I should write down the TAB for solos that sound good.

[Nightwish]

Originally posted by SpinCycl
Thanks. What you guys are saying is making sense.

I am finding that staying within the chords is ok, and use the pentatonic is ok too. Then, it helps to once in a while throw in an off-key note or two where appropriate.

Now, it's just a challenge to play the solo the same way each time... It's not a bad thing, but it's hard to practice it well if it's different each time. I guess I should write down the TAB for solos that sound good.

Sure, anyone can play up and down a whole scale in key but, putting something can sound alot better. :-) . I recommend you to listen to some (old music) that deals with the guitar. Classic Rock if you liked the Old Metal :-) . Or listen to your favorite genre. Todays stuff is bull crap. Ya they can sing but, speaking you whole life gave you the ability to add different pitches to your words like a ANGER! Its a matter of how you know your instrument. Ya thiers people who will say KoRn is great but, all and all they couldnt play a solo (Specially Metallicas "One Song" it was sad how they ended the song also) So stick with classics for the real deal. No copies! LOL ;)

[SPEEDFREEK24]

The pentatonic is a good place to start but dont stop there. that was the problem for a year or 2 in the early 80s, where just about all of those who slung lead were just playing speed runs using the pentatonic for their solos. Ya it sounds cool, but its like buying a ferrari and never pulling out of 3rd gear! youre not even coming close to seeing the potential of your instrument. if youre looking for a varying sound, take a look at modes. modes are key patterns each with a certain mood. they can really add depth to a solo and are actually really nice played on bass under a rhythm track. on top of that, theres a world of music with its own scales to try out. listen to classical music, like paganini or mozart, back or vivaldi, and if you can sit and listen to it but translate it into guitar in your head, and hear the notes being played on your axe, it will blow your mind. also, look at foreign music. the hungarian scale has a really cool sound to it, i use it a bit for that other-worldy touch when i want it. neopolitan scales and enigmatics are also pretty cool.