Mastering 1 scale 1st

[satch]

Has any one on here taken the approach of mastering 1 scale before they move on to the next?
Ive been working on D harmonic minor for 3wks now.I definately can see how just because they are all the same notes doesnt mean they sound good together but in a way you can here they are in key with ea. other.
Do i still need to just work on this 1 scale?
I dont want to be a guitarist that has to constantly work out notes before they are played.To me that takes all the fun and inspiration and improv out of it.
I want to train my ear to hear all the notes before i play them.
Im just frustrated with this theory crap and when i just pick up the guitar and start soloing it seems to be better than this scale ive been slaving over for weeks and hours now.
I guess playing the guitar for 14yrs before i learned 1 drop of theory has hurt me.
Whats your thoughts on this.

[Malcolm]

instead of the micro approach with scales. The bigger picture instead of a specific scale, by using scale patterns. I think in patterns. Click Here (http://www.worldguitar.com/majorscale.html) for a Major scale pattern. The 6th string is on the bottom of the graph and the red dots are the "root note". Place the root note on the Key note you want to play. For a G major scale place the root note on the 3rd fret 6th string. For an A major note place the red dot on the 5th fret 6th string, etc, etc, etc,

Now all you have to do is hunt up the other patterns and you can play any scale anywhere on the fretboard.

[satch]

Actually i just played the scale again after taking 1 day off from it
and its starting to come together.
Ive realized if i want to play slow stuff then scales are the answer
if i want to really wow em and shred then just playing what feels right is the best approach.
Thanx for reply but im not really a by rote guy i like to skip all around the fretboard and dont like to learn box patterns but end up learning them in the end anyways.
:)

[slick13]

yeah, I think the only reason theory messes people up is because they think they have to stick with it because its the ONLY way to solo. You need to learn how to mix experimentation in with good theory. Dont get in a rut and dont be scared to do things a bit different.
S L I C K

[WildBill]

youcan play a good solo without know any theory, but when it comes right down to it or not, you might not know it or not but your playing scales.. I like the box patterns because it able you to take it one step at a time if you want or you can slap'em all together and go for the big picture..

[wild_axeman]

If you get far enough into theory it starts to make sense and can really explain everything.You have to know the rules before you can break em.But I suppose you can make your own rules and break those if your ears are really good and you're a really creative/imaginative type.

[ionian]

i agree we shouldb all do it in the box shapes insted of 1 big group of notes.it helps u understand.i well into theory now and trust it explains everything it much better to know it all good guitarists no it .e.g u woodnt expect mark knopfler not to know scales wood u .

[satch]

Ok I guess i need to study the box patterns first.
Chords are mostly played inside a box anyways and unless you are eric johnson box patterns may be the simplest way to think of it.
Those of you who know your scales inside and out,do you already know
the note degrees of that scale or do you just let your ears and hands improv.
It seems like im doin fine until i hit the major mode of harmonic minor
and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[ionian]

learn all the main scales and then improve on eaach 1 gradually

[wild_axeman]

Well eric johnson plays in boxes too but right next to any box is another box and so on and he just shifts into them at will.He just goes wherever he wants to,to whatever range and timbre he's looking for and he's very good at it and it sounds very melodic and very un-pentatonic the way he effortlessly shreds them.Of course this is how he solos.He might use a regular scale or mode to come up with riffs and stuff.You can get alot out of bravery,boldness and attitude! Be adventurous,be dangerous!

[satch]

Axeman do you slowly learn patterns of different scales and just incorporate them into your natural playing and then just remember what works with whatever your playing.Basically im saying is not to sweat memorizing whole fretboard patterns but simply remember lets say 1st position c major and then work it into my improvising and realise when to use it and when not based on my ear and not on concentrating so much.That sounds like a good idea if so,I just hope i can get those patterns burned into my brain.Im so much better at improv when im not thinking about it and letting go but i do need a shove in the right direction and i guess eventually i will memorize
the patterns if i dont try to think about it too much.

[wild_axeman]

Well you can memorize them and then forget 'em,or forget about 'thinking' about them when you go to play.Thinking too much beyond "am I playing the right scale or notes" can be bad when you're actually trying to improvise over a progression.You think before you play and get a general idea about what you are about to play but then once the parameters are set you play within those parameters and shut off your brain and feel what you are playing.

As far as patterns the major scale's linear pattern of whole and halfsteps (W W H W W W H) should be well imprinted on your psyche.

You can then compare other like scales to the major scale.

Some scales like harmonic minor only have a few useful patterns that are easy to see any way.Visualization is a big part of it.The 3 notes per string patterns for the modes are an important visualization tool as well.The same shapes repeat often through groups of two or three strings.This can be helpful when trying to visualize a new scale that you just learned.It is important to find your own patterns that you like.You can find practical patterns that are easy to visualize and thus remember,or you can find patterns that make for a good warm up or workout or stretch your fingers nicely.Look at all possible directions when dissecting scales for cool scale patterns.Look up,down,left,right, across,backwards,forwards,and diagonally.

Pitch Axis Theory (http://guitarstudio.tv/tips/pitch_axis_theory.htm)

Scaleopia (http://www.geocities.com/scaleopia/)

[satch]

Wow Thats a really ingenious way of thinking about it.
Matching the same scale patterns and not concerning about the key
and letting your ear move the patterns around to closely related or unrelated keys of the same scale type.
Thats some of the best advice ive ever heard.
Great help
thanx

[Mettra]

Originally posted by satch
Wow Thats a really ingenious way of thinking about it.
Matching the same scale patterns and not concerning about the key
and letting your ear move the patterns around to closely related or unrelated keys of the same scale type.
Thats some of the best advice ive ever heard.
Great help
thanx

Check out my lesson on Fretboard Visualization in the User Lessons & Articles forum. It follows the same guidelines.

[satch]

thanx mettra and axeman
good stuff
Im not crazy about pitch axis because there are too many different intervals and scales involved.It relies on a really good ear and mine isnt worth a flip.
I like 1 or 2 scales and letting my ear choose the key.
Whats neat is even if the same scale patterns dont match the same key
they can still sound relevant because of the intervals.
Genious!!!!
I think this thread should be a primer course for all beginners on this site.
Patterns and scales are way more important than keys at least IMHO

[Malcolm]

---"The 3 notes per string patterns for the modes are an important visualization tool as well.The same shapes repeat often through groups of two or three strings.This can be helpful when trying to visualize a new scale..."

I hit upon a simple way to get the visualization down, so that it's second nature. Thinking of the pattern being two and three notes per sting helps. Much simplier now just remembering the sequence. I started drawing the pattern on paper, each one 5, 10, 15 times till I remember it with out making a mistake. I also take the patterns with me when I do my daily walk and use this time to go over the patterns --imprinting the patterns in my mind.

Works for me.

[wild_axeman]

I was talking about how you have the same shapes occurring
on each group of two strings like this:



Ionian (3 notes per string)

E:| | |O| |O|O|
B:| | |O| |O|O|
G:| |O|O| |O|
D:| |O|O| |O|
A:|O| |O| |O|
E:|O| |O| |O|

^It's pretty easy to "visualize" whats happening!

It's not the "only" way to visualize but it's "one" method.

________________________________________________


major scale's "linear" pattern of Whole and Half steps:

E:|O| |O| |O|O| |O| |O| |O|O|