Scales,Notes ..iam confused

[newguitarplayer]

Ok..iam learning theory all i know is the notes on the octave..ive been messing around with it for a while but any way i dont know how to make a scale like the rules for constructing one say for c major scale i know the pattern goes wwhwwwh W=Whole H= Half so.. C D E F G A B C can you write the scale so it can be played all over the octave
------A6--------------
-----G9-12B-----------
---F10----5C----------
--E2------------------
-D6-------------------
C9--------------------
i think it is most likly wrong i just took any letter like c from any part of the octave and matched it to the pattern of c major c d e f g
a b c.. or some thing like..
10--------------------
--4-------------------
----10----------------
-------4-----12-------
---------12-3---------
-----------6----------

Iam sort of just guessing i havent learned how to make scales yet hopefully some one can help me out...

[ianb]

There are a number of way to play major scales without having to stretch too far, these are known as patterns, they can be moved to different starting points to give different keys

Here are two patterns for C Major, to start you off.


|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|
|B|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|G|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|
|D|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|
|A|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|


|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|
|B|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|G|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|
|D|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|
|A|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|

[newguitarplayer]

ok but for this pattern:
|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|
|B|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|G|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|
|D|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|
|A|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|

how did you get all the finerings..as you could see in my examples i only put
------A6--------------
-----G9-12B-----------
---F10----5C----------
--E2------------------
-D6-------------------
C9--------------------

i dont understand how you got 15 notes for the scale shouldent there only be C D E F G A B C 8? iam sorry ive never been taught this also if you know any good sites teaching this can u post it for me.. thanks for the help

[ianb]

You get 7 notes in each octave of the scale, the eigth note of the scale is the starting point of the next octave.

The 15 notes just mean that those two patterns cover two octaves instead of just one.

what I posted ran C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
There are only 7 notes as the any note an octave apart performs the same function against the root note.

e.g. Root note of C all notes of C sound at rest.
e.g. Root note of C all notes of E sound "Happy" (Major third function) - finger pick an E and a C together (preferably with the C sounding lower than the E to make this more obvious, the sound of the notes together gives an impression of a "Happy" sound. Compare this to a C played against an Eb/D# (Eb/D# are different names for the same note it is 1 fret lower than any E) the Eb against a C is not on the Major Scale it is from the Minor Scale and the two notes together sound "Sad" this is the sound of a minor third, all Eb notes are minor 3rds compared to C notes.


I am more than happy to keep going with this thread until you are happy that it has clicked.

[newguitarplayer]

ok thanks alot iam starting to understand scales a little more.Another
question I have is... Is there rules or names for patterns in scales like going threw the scale 1 time like I did in the first 1 or if u went 2 or 3 times would it be called different? here are some patterns I made up are they right if not could u tell me what iam doing wrong thanks for your help.


-------------------------------7-8-
------------------------6-8-10-----
-------------------5-7-9-----------
------------7-9-10-----------------
-----7-8-10------------------------
8-10-------------------------------

-------------------------1-3-7-8---
-------------------1-3-4-----------
-------------2-4-5-----------------
-------5-7-9-----------------------
-5-7-8-----------------------------
8----------------------------------

---------------------------------------
-------------------------------10-12-8-
-----------------------9-10-12----------
----------------9-10-7------------------
--------8-10-12-------------------------
8-10-12---------------------------------

[ianb]

-------------------------------7-8- B C
------------------------6-8-10----- F G A
-------------------5-7-9----------- C D E
------------7-9-10----------------- A B C
-----7-8-10------------------------ E F G
8-10------------------------------- C D

-------------------------1-3-7-8--- F G B C
-------------------1-3-4----------- C D E
-------------2-4-5----------------- A B C
-------5-7-9----------------------- G A B
-5-7-8----------------------------- D E F
8---------------------------------- C

---------------------------------------
-------------------------------10-12-8- A B G
-----------------------9-10-12---------- E F G
----------------9-10-7------------------ B C A
--------8-10-12------------------------- F G A
8-10-12--------------------------------- C D E


All of your patterns are in the Key of C Major you have no bum notes.
for the most part you have them ascending in corrct sequence for scales, you have lost it a bit on some of the string changes, but nothing that can't be fixed.

The three notes per string pattern you have is close to something that makes an excellent pattern for fast playing because the pick movements are minimised (each string is picked down, up, down) this allows for very fast alternate picking.

I have included the full pattern because it makes the point that even if you go off the end and past the octave you are still playing notes in the correct key.


----------------------------------------10-12-13- D E F
-------------------------------10-12-13---------- A B C
-----------------------9-10-11------------------- E F G
----------------9-10-11-------------------------- B C D
--------8-10-12---------------------------------- F G A
8-10-12------------------------------------------ C D E

[newguitarplayer]

ok this is a really stupid question but how do you get the notes past the octave? does it just start over again in order?

[ianb]

Yes.
That is not a stupid question.

[newguitarplayer]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
|E|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|
|B|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|
|G|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-c*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|
|D|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|
|A|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|
|E|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
|E|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|
|B|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|
|G|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-c*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|
|D|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|
|A|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|
|E|-F*|-G-|-G*|-A-|-A*|-B-|-C-|-C*|-D-|-D*|-E-|-F-|



so some thing like that?
and do you think learning scales is one of the first things I should be learning or is there some thing before it..that would make learning this faster also.. are these modes?

Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aolian
Locrian

do modes just change the pattern u play scales? like major is wwhwwh
w=whole, h=half. thanks

[ianb]

The easy way to learn scale is to learn patterns that can be moved around the neck.
The numbers relate to the note relationship in the major scale. e.g 1=Root note, 3=Major Third.

Start by learning the first box pattern, starting with the 1 on the 6th string at fret 8 this is a C Major Scale.
Learn it starting on the first 1 and ending on the last 1.
This is because you need to hear the scale notes in relation to the root note (the 1s)

Move the pattern to line up the 1s with the 5th fret to give an A Major Scale.
Next try picking any major key and play this pettern to hear what it sounds like.

Learn all 5 Box shapes for the Major scale, notice how each shape shares notes with the box next to it, this allows you to learn a scale and play it all over the nexk of the guitar by moving up or down to the next pattern position.

Now the clever bit...
Use the same shapes but start on the 6s instead of the 1s, no new patterns to learn.
You now have patterns for the natural Minor Scale all over the neck of the guitar in any Key, just by lining up the 6s with the root note of the Minor scale that you want.
The only difference is how the notes of the patterns sound compared to the root note (1s for Major 6s for Minor)



|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|
|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|
|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|---|
|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|

|---|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|
|---|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|
|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|
|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|
|---|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|

|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|
|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|---|
|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|
|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|

|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|
|-5-|---|-6-|---|---|
|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|
|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|---|
|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|

|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|
|---|-6-|---|-7-|-1-|
|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
|-7-|-1-|---|-2-|---|
|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|


The reason for including all the notes in each box is that you have also learned the patterns for all the modes.

The Major Scale is also known as Ionian Mode (you get this sound when you use the 1s as the root note)
The Minor Scale is also known as Aolian Mode (you get this sound when you use the 6s as the root note)

But you really get all of the modes if you use the following as root notes.

Ionian - 1s
Dorian - 2s
Phrygian - 3s
Lydian - 4s
Mixolydian - 5s
Aolian - 6s
Locrian - 7s

[bills]

NewGuitarPlayer asked if there is anything he should learn before scales? While it's important to know scales, and you seem to be off to a great start, before you get to involved in scales It's important to understand " where the notes on the guitar, or any other instrument, come from": in other words what notes belong to what keys. There are 15 Major Key. I would recommend not, at this point, being to concerned with minor keys.

Keys, and the chords that belong to them, are based on scales. Eg. the key of C Major is based on the C Major scale

There are flat keys and sharp keys: will start with flat

Flat keys

C Major: the notes in the Key of C major are C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
F Major: the notes in the key of F major are F,G,A,Bb,C,B,E,F
Bb Major: the notes in the key of Bb Major are Bb,C,D,Eb,F,G,A,Bb
Eb Major: the notes in the key of Eb major are Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb,C,D,Eb
Ab Major the notes in the key of Ab Major are Ab,Bb,C,Db,Eb,F,G,Ab
Db Major: the notes in the key of Db Major are Db,Eb,F,Gb,Ab,Bb,C,Db
Gb Major: the notes in the key of Gb major are Gb,Ab,Bb,Cb,Db,Eb,F,Gb
Cb Major: the notes in the key of Cb major are Cb,Db,Eb,Fb,Gb,Ab,Bb,Cb

We will start with just those Flat keys for now. In case you don't know yet the sign for flat is a small b. and the sign for sharp is the number sign (#). Also the note Fb is also named E, and the not Cb is also named B. B and E are sharp keys: we can go over that later.

In summary, I know this is alot to swallow, but it's more important to know this because these keys are where the modes of the major scales ( Ionian, Dorian,Phrygin etc.) come from.

Hope this helps