Learn this Cmaj13 chord

[cyberfret]

Here is a new chord to get your hands on. It is a Cmaj7(9,13) That just means a C major 7 chord, with a 9 and 13 added. Or it might just be referred to as a Cmaj13. This is just a real fancy C major chord. the numbers in parentheses are the fingers that you should use, and further to the right are the functions of the notes within the chord. Full understanding of the theory is not necessary to learn this cool sounding chord.

Cmaj7(9,13)

E:---5(1)----(13)-------
B:---5(1)----(3)--------
G:---7(2)----(9)--------
D:---9(4)----(7)--------
A:---x------------------
E:---8(3)----(root)-----

--Shawn

[SteelSlider]

Nice chord, nice stretch. It's a nice sounding jem.
When I looked at it I recognized the pattern, but know it as
Gmaj13#11/D with the root on the tenth fret.

It all depends on what key your using it in, right? As to what it's called, or so I've heard. Do you agree with that Shawn? Or was that guy, who I was needling about info on chord names, just trying to shut me up?
Here's the differences.

Cmaj7(9,13)

E:---5(1)----(13)-------
B:---5(1)----(3)--------
G:---7(2)----(9)--------
D:---9(4)----(7)--------
A:---x------------------
E:---8(3)----(root)-----

Gmaj13#11/D

E:---7(1)----(3)------------
B:---7(1)----(7)------------
G:---9(2)----(13)----------
D:---11(4)----(#11)--------
A:---x------------------------
E:---10(3)----(5)----------


It's in a jazz piece I use to play.
I thought I understood all this, now I'm having my doubts.
Another question, if it is in Dmaj progression, would the root be in the same postion? On the tenth fret? But played in a different scale? If it matters any, I think I used the lead over this cord is in the dorian scale. I'd have to go upstairs and play it to make sure.

Man, you just through a hammer into my well structured and understood glass case of scale and mode ideas I thought I knew so well.

[cyberfret]

I had never thought of this chord as a Gmaj13#11/D chord, but with your 3rd finger on the 10th fret, it is. The root is assumed (not played) on the 10th fret of the 5th string. This chord form would be movable, using the root location as your reference as to what chord it would be.


What name you give this chord really depend on the situation. How you hear this chord can become very subjective.

Here is your Gmaj13#11/D....only thinking of it as Dmaj7(9,13)

Dmaj7(9,13)

E:---7(1)----(13)-------
B:---7(1)----(3)--------
G:---9(2)----(9)--------
D:--11(4)----(7)--------
A:---x------------------
E:--10(3)----(root)-----


For a scale to use over this chord, both Dmaj7(9,13) and Gmaj13#11 would used the same scale....D major. But if you where thinking about this chord as a Gmaj13#11 you would probably think of a mode of D major, the G Lydian mode.

D major scale

D..E..F#.G..A..B..C#.D
1..2..3..4..5..6..7..1 - scale functions
R..9..3........13.7 - notes used in this chord voicing


G Lydian

G..A..B..C#.D..E..F#.G
1..2..3.#4..5..6..7..1 - scale functions
......3.#11.5..13.7 - notes used in this chord voicing



Now if you want to twist your mind further. This is a Bm7(9,11) :) ...with a chord scale of B natural minor or B Aeolian ...Which is still just the notes of a D major scale.

Bm7(9,11)/D

E:---7(1)----(root)---
B:---7(1)----(5)------
G:---9(2)----(11)-----
D:--11(4)----(9)------
A:---x----------------
E:--10(3)----(b3)-----


or....

Em7(9,13)/D - chord scale E dorian ...just another D major mode.

E:---7(1)----(5)------
B:---7(1)----(9)------
G:---9(2)----(root)---
D:--11(4)----(13)-----
A:---x----------------
E:--10(3)----(b7)-----


So an E Dorian would be the same notes as D major if that is the Dorian you are using to improvise with.

If you are playing a D Dorian over this chord, here is why it may be working. Not because of really any theory that would point you to D Dorian, but through blues conditioning. Our ears have become used to some sounds that do not necessarily fit exactly with a chord. The blues sounds of the b3 and the b7 against a major type chord. So if this tune has a bluesy feel, or you can superimpose a bluesy feel over the tune, then this will work with care. But there are situations where this will just sound bad, especially that b7 and natural 7 combination.

To make this chord sound more bluesy, just lower the 7 to a b7

D7(9,13) - scale would be D Mixolydian or G major

E:---7(1)----(13)-------
B:---7(1)----(3)--------
G:---9(2)----(9)--------
D:--10(4)----(b7)--------
A:---x------------------
E:--10(3)----(root)-----


Isn't theory fun :)

--Shawn

[jaytee]

uhhhhh....yeah i got all that...sort of.........lol
ok so at least i could READ it all and mostly follow....couldnt make it up myself tho thats for sure.....

can we step back a bit tho? im only asking this cuz it's in SS's original question...something i need explained....something ive noticed before......it's pretty basic...so sorry if i sound dumb....


you see where he wrote:

Gmaj13#11/D ?

what is the /D part about?
ive seen it before ....looking at chord diagrams....ones i figured would be good to learn.....a couple of them had a / in them and i never saw it before in any other lessons i read....

--jt

[cyberfret]

jaytee, that is good that you followed that at least in a general sense. So much of music theory requires a little knowledge of a lot of things before you can fully understand. So after I answer your question, you will have another piece of the puzzle.

Gmaj13#11/D is what is called a slash chord. But I am going to give you a little easier and more common example.... D/F#.



Whenever you see something like the chord D/F#, it means this. The letter to the left of the slash is the name of the chord, so this is a D chord. The letter you see to the right of the slash is the bass note, or lowest sounding note of the chord. Normally in a D chord, the lowest sounding note is D. But in a D/F# chord, the lowest sounding note is a F# (F sharp). The way that you pronounce this chord is either "D slash F sharp" or "D with a F sharp in the bass".

Here is where knowing the names of the notes on the neck comes in handy. If you can play a D chord, and you can find a close F# note to throw onto the bottom of that D chord, you have a D/F#.

Here is a basic D chord in tablature form. The numbers in parentheses are the fingers you should use.

E:---2-(2)---
B:---3-(3)---
G:---2-(1)---
D:---0-(0)---
A:-----------
E:-----------




Here is a D/F# chord. This is just a D chord only putting an F# as the lowest sounding note. Use your thumb to play the F# note on the 6th string 2nd fret.

E:---2-(2)---
B:---3-(3)---
G:---2-(1)---
D:---0-(0)---
A:---0-(0)---
E:---2-(T)---

So a Gmaj13#11/D is just a Gmaj13#11 chord (just a real fancy G major chord) with a D note as the lowest sounding note instead of G.


--Shawn

[jaytee]

makes perfect sense!

except for one thing......
why did we add the A string in? somehow i would think it would be muted....

ty :)

btw thanks shawn.....
i have mostly you and a couple other misc lessons from other sites to thank for anything i understand :)

[cyberfret]

Actually a D chord consists of the notes D, F# and A. The 5th string open is an A note, so there is no real need to mute it. If you where to play a basic D chord and strum 5 strings, then A would be the lowest note of the chord. Then you would say that it is a D/A chord.

D/A

E:---2-(2)---
B:---3-(3)---
G:---2-(1)---
D:---0-(0)---
A:---0-(0)---
E:-----------


In the D/F# chord, you could mute the 5th string to separate the bass from the rest of the chord a little more. You just have to reach our thumb around a little further. But it is not necessary.

--Shawn

[jaytee]

thanks! i got it! :)

[SteelSlider]

Shawn, if there is ever crime in music, you'd be the perfect scale investigator. :)
That lead over that Gmaj was a Mixolydian scale.
Yeah, I know what ya mean about that b7th.
When playing the typical l, lV, V, chord progression, I avoid that major 3rd. Just don't sit right, not at all.
like this in A,

E: -----------------5--------
B: --------------5-------7--
G: ------5h6----------------
D: --------------------------
A: ---------------------------
E: ---------------------------

When the chords change from l (A) to lV (D), and that Bb is hit, it can be heard clear into next week.

Ah, now I understand how the same chord can have so many different names.

When I learnt all the different scales, ionion, dorian, ect. I began playing form one end it the neck to the other and back again. I learnt the three fret, per sting pattern. It really helped me with my playing and speed.
That's why I harp about it so much, it just opens up new avenues and makes improv and learning someone elses song so much easier. Practicing your scales isn't the funnist part of learning music, but it's essentual in understanding what the devil is going on and how to figure a tough chord out, or someone's raunchy lead.
And yes, Theory is fun.
I see I need to brush up on my studies.

Thanks Shawn, for the indepth explaination.

[jaytee]

heehee

repeat after SS:

Theory is fun...
theory is fun...
theory IS fun...

everyday 10 times a day AT LEAST....

until you break down and get into it....learn to love it....

[SteelSlider]

Good advice.

[steve]

wouldn't it be easier to use your thumb to fret the low E string (8th fret)???

[SteelSlider]

Hi Steve,
Sure, you could do it either way. The way you play isn't fixed in concrete. Just what ever is easiest for you.
For me it's just more comfortable barring the position if I'm playing the chord, but when I lay a lead over it I tend to fix my first finger on the E,B strings and stay within a scale. I anchor my fingers there because I don't like to stare at my hand or the fretboard when I play. Another reason is to keep an eye out for flying beer bottles. :)
Either way is fine.

One more comment.
I don't play very many open chords, unless it's in the song, so mostly I'm chording up the neck a ways.
How I make a specific chord finger pattern depends a lot on what the next chord is. Since I play mostly lead, I'm either leading during solos and running a scale of some sort low in the background, or chording behind the rhythm player until my next event. Even playing lead, I form chords, maybe not complete cords, but I still form them.
A couple of examples why I change postions;
Now, if I'm playing a G chord I usually barre it on the third fret. If my next chord is a C, I'm all set. I just form the C chord like so.

G chord _ C chord
E: 3______E: 3
B: 3______B: 5
G: 4______G: 5
D: 5______D: 5
A: 5______ A: 3
E: 3______E: 3

But if I'm playing a G chord, and my next chord is an Em, I change my position of the G chord to barre it on the seventh fret. like this.

E: 7
B: 8
G: 7
D: 9
A: 10 (root)
E: 7

Then when the Em chord comes up I move my pinkie.

E: 7
B: 8
G: 9
D: 9
A: 7 (root)
E: 7

Now, if you look carefully at the G and Em chords on the 7th frets, and take away the barring finger,,,,, can you see the open C chord pattern there in the G chord, and can you see the open Am chord pattern in the Em chord on the 7th fret?
Barre chords are just extensions of open chords, with some exceptions, of course.

By moving the same chord around in differnt spots on the neck, you create a different scale pattern (for your own benifit) and make your chord changes a bit easier, while at the same time offering a different sounding chord (for the listeners benifit).

I hope I don't confuse you with all this.