memorize,create from e string

[satch]

AS most of you know I had found a way to memorize 28 scale types
and their modes but interstingly i have a great way to memorize the scale
and create lines from them.
Basically if you know all your scales in the key of e on just the e string you can get your interval distance between the notes and them transfer them all over the fretboard.
Harmonic minor in E on E string
0--2--3--5--7--8--11---12--14---15--17--19--20--23--24-----------

----12--11--8--7--2----------e string random order of harmonic minor
12 to 11 is -1 or 11
11 to 8 is -3 or 9
8 to 7 is -1 or 11
7 to 2 is -5 or 7
Now create chords,riffs.......motifs from any note on fretboard then 11..9..11..7
------------6---3--2---------------------
-----------------------2--------------
--------4------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Notice how in this creation 6 to 3 is actually -3 which is enharmonic to 9
3 to 2 is -1 which is enharmonic to 11
Since i started my intervals from the root of the harmonic minor we can consider 4 on the tab is the root also
so this motif would be harmonic minor in the key of B
Any questions?

[keef8675309]

for all who thought it couldnt get easier! check out garlandpool.com and go to the rossetta stone of guitar lesson! tell them keef says thanks

[shaunwg]

You have now officially confused me.
I am a beginner on the electric and I am trying so hard to get the theory to stick in this difficult cerebrum of mine but I cant seem to get the scales or notes or harmonic theory to stick....

[satch]

I know it can be confusing because there is so much to learn.
This is only 1 of countless ways to experiment with scales etc......
Im still kind of on the fence as to which method is the easiest to use.
Its good i think to see it from many different angles.
I think to start off you must know the terminology we all use.
For starters...................
A scale is simply a preassigned set of notes(markers) that have specific distances
between ea. succesive note.
A key refers to the TARGET note where you derive all the other notes of the scale from.
A scale has as many different names as it does notes.
example.......a 7 note scale has 7 different names depending on your target note.
A mode is simply that same scale using a different target note.
same distances between notes but a different reference point.
An octave is where the last possible note of the chromatic scale meets
the beginning of the chromatic scale all over again.
12 possible notes.
Inversion is the distance going in the opposite direction of the octave.
A chord is basically named from alterations of the major scale
where everyother note in the scale is the next chord tone.
All i have done in the 1st post is to change the distance names in scales
from traditional....ie....major 2nd...minor 3rd etc....into chromatic
numbers from root.
Chromatic simply means every possible note in succesion from the chromatic scale which contains all 12 notes of western music.
These arent "textbook"defintions but the way i interpret the terms.

[oogitsmelol]

ok i think i might be getting it but help me out if im wrong. You are basing this off of the E note... so you get the 11th fret because its 1 fret down form the e note, same way with the 9 and the 7 right. BUT... how do you get the 6 and the 3 and the two, im looking at the scale right now... i dont know it, h/on and i migth be able to figure this out... ok so the 3 and 2 are on the scale, but not the 9 or the 6.. is that derived another way? sooo confused, but i think i might be getting it, i just need a little help... Are you going form teh B that you played on the 4th fret... so confused....

[satch]

The 11 .....9....11.......7
is the secret to all this.
This method is kinda confusing because it relies on you to instantly know
the chromatic formula for ea. scale type on your E string.
basically your counting your way up and down skipping around using only the notes of the scale on the E.
You have to mentally count in your head the distances between the notes you choose.If you go down the scale toward the nut you have to mentally
work its inversion.
The 11...9....11....7........is the corrected number of UP only intervals from which ever note you choose on the guitar as your starting note.
Which basically sez.....first note then a note that is 11 chromatic steps higher.......then the next note is 9 chromatic steps higher...then the next note is 11 chromatic steps higher .....then the next note is 7 chromatic steps higher.Obviously you cant do all these intervals on 1 string or you
would run out of room.....thus you must cross into other strings or transfer
the number sequence into its inversions if you wish to stay in a smaller box
on the fretboard.I have many other ways to study scales if this one is too hard.

[oogitsmelol]

I am kind of getting it... but not really... another way would be nice, like an absolute beginner's way... Really what is throwing me about it is how you get the 6... i understand the rest of it... but i cant figure out the 6. A begginers way would be appreciated though, i really dont know how to use scales, i just screw around with them.

[satch]

Well after much working over the various ways to see/learn/improvise
and memorize scale stuff and find a way to keep your sanity in all this
Ive come to the conclusion that the best way to sort thru all the theory
and ear and inspiration of guitar playing and evolving is thru
modifying scale patterns and chord patterns.I have tried learning scales thru
the methodology of knowing every possible way to see and know what to play 1 scale and 1 key at a time.IT doesnt work .....at least for me it doesnt.
I guess i depends on the kind of player u wish to be(realistically).
If your style dictates only using 1 or 2 scale types then i would recommend the latter BUT if you wish to have an all encompasing knowledge of vast
amounts of scales in all sorts of twisted creative Fusion/jazz/hardrock
instrumental/classical solo flair.....like me:-)Then let me approach it this way.......This explanation is a slight variation of what was posted in this post
at the beginning but I realized that finding intervals from 1 note to the next
is very confusing to say the least.Lets approach it using only 1 note as our
reference note or "homebase note".
We can assume that if we base our entire knowledge of all our scale formulas
from 1 note and then find the distances from this note only on 1 string
then those numbers will be a CONSTANT that we can use to have total freedom when creating them in different places.
Lets start with harmonic minor

Anytime I think i want to use/learn/improv or study THIS SCALE ONLY i will always
think of these numbers.......2....3....5....7....8....11.....12
12...will always be a part of ANY scale and i will explain this latter.

Now lets place these numbers on the corresponding frets of the low E string.
ALL my scales will always start this way!

...2....3.....5......7......8......11.......12.... ............................
Realize that as you get your distances from the starting note of choice
which will be one of these notes to ea. desired note in this chain
you are building a chain of numbers which are modes of this scale.

Lets choose 5 notes for example
8 as our homebase then
2......3......5.......11
Going from 8(home) to 2
goes down the chain..6 places
BUT anytime you go DOWN towards the nut you must change the number
to an INVERSION.If you do this it makes memorizing the chain so much easier latter.
Any number going down has a number =12 going up.This is called the INVERSION.
THUS............going down 6 = going 6 up also.
Examples of interval inversions are.............................
going down 5 is = to going 7 places up........5+7=12
going down 3 is = to going 9 places up........3+9=12
Notice that if you add the up and down intervals they will always =12.
Back on point!!!!
2...3...5...11 from 8
8 to 2 is 6
8 to 3 is 7
8 to 5 is 9
8 to 11 is 3
So our formula for this creation from the harmonic minor scale in this case
will be............6...7....9...3
These numbers are the distance from the starting note.The starting note
can now be placed anywhere on the fretboard you wish:-)
As long as the notes are 6...7...9...3 distance from homebase(starting note)
you will be correct in your placement.
Heres some possibilities using those numbers..................


--------------------------------------------------
----------------------8----------------------------
--------------9--10-----------------------------------
-----------8--------------11--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
pattern 1

--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------0--------------------------------
---------------------3---------11-----------------------------
------------1----7--------------------------------------------
pattern 2

NOTE*.....These patterns are different keys from ea. other but Im not about
keys im all about sliding these patterns up and down combining
them into positions that sound good together in the proper context to what your ear tells you.As far as open strings go,personally i like to have a good number of fret only patterns figured out and then i go back if i want and
compare ea. note of the pattern to ea. open string.If they sound unison
or "same tone" then i know I can use them and maybe omit the fretted note.
This a lot to soak in but after 11 yrs of theory study this way is a nice blend of ear /feel and theory wrapped into 1.
Reply with any questions you have.
ALSO remember to experiment with timing and starting and stopping on different notes in the pattern and also repition of notes helps.
Build up as many combinations of this scale as you can and start improvising.You should be able to make some interesting sounding stuff!
cheers.

[satch]

IMPORTANT NOTE*
when building your number chain using only the e string.
Remember this is not what you will end up playing for others or yourself.
It is only the theoretical approach to mapping out what you will use to improvise/create in that scale.
You could in essence use just those notes but i tend to make my improvs much more complicated than just 1 string.
Everything i do on the guitar must contain at least 1 of the following if not some or all.
Base it on...................
1.killer tone
2.Awesome technique
3.properly placed speed
4.various patterns
5.2 note powerchords at a minimum
6.varying use of arpeggios/linear scales/chords/2 note intervals
and single note rythms
7.some flash
8.volume control and attack
9.picking variations
10.non use of a pick.....strumming and plucking
11.varying vibratos
12.dont bend every note.....beginners like to over emphasize bending.
13.If you cant play it as fast clean as distorted then slow down till you can
and build from there.
14.Keep the distortion and effects to a minimum.Let your fingers determine
your tone.
Thats a good start:-)

[oogitsmelol]

I GET IT!!! thanks. it took me a while to understand just what you meant, but now i get it. Jsut one question do you ahve to use the 6,7,9,3 pattern, or is could i use any pattern that sounds good? and exactly how did you get teh pattern?

[satch]

You arent confined to just one pattern.6....7...9...3......is only a temporary
number in your mind to set up a pattern that you will use.Once you know
the pattern and it sets into long term memory by improvising with it a lot ,you are slowly building up a library of all this stuff.The order of ANY number pattern you use is up to the creator(you).As for how did i come up
with the patterns?Well i havent shown you this yet but I didnt want to confuse you with too much stuff from the word go.You say you "get it"so I will go ahead and explain the pattern tab stuff.

------------------------8x------------6y-------------high E
------------------5y--------7y-----------------------
--------------3x-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------2x----------------
---------------------------------------------------
---4x---10y---------------------------------------------low E
Since 6...7...9...3..refers to distance from only 1 note then we can assume
that memorizing the order of the numbers /deletion of some/octaves of some
inversions of some etc....doesnt matter!BUT you should realize the more notes of the scale in a pattern the easier it will be to hear how 2/3 patterns
morphed in sequence together sound when trying to peice ideas together.
For now im going to only refer to 6 as y and homebase note as (x)in tab above.Each paired x,y above are some ways you can veiw a 6 interval from x.I didnt concern myself with keys just interval distances.The first two sets
of intervals are easy because they are "up" only intervals close to x.
The 3rd set...8 to 7....is harder because im going down the interval chain
and had to think in terms of an inversion.The last set 2 to 6 uses an octave 12 to create a total distance of 18.(6+12=18)....You will want to use octaves and inversions often so it allows you to have total freedom and creativity in forming patterns that are widely diverse in sight and sound.
This makes you a much more "impressive flashy type player"who is developing a more knowledgable intellegent way to play and improvise with the guitar.To truly understand all this you must know how to count intervals across all your strings and heres how i do it using a "barre"approach.

--------------4-------------------------e
------------4-----------------------------b
----------4-------------------------------g
--------4---------------------------------d
------4------------------------------------a
----4--------------------------------------E
4E to 4a is a 5 interval
4E to 4d is a 10 interval
4E to 4g is a 15 or a 3 interval
4E to 4b is a 19 or a 7 interval
4E to 4e is a 24 or 12 or 0 interval
4e to 4b is a -5 or 7
-5 because im going backward......its also a 7 because of inversion rule.
5+7=12
I always count in a "barre"approach then make adjustments if im going up the string or down the string from there.

Lets look at this tab below to figure out its interval using this method.

--------------------------
--------------------------
----9----------------------
--------------------------
--------------13------------
---------------------------
lets count from 9 to 13 to see its interval.
--------------------------
--------------------------
-------9-------------------
---------9-----------------
------------9----13----------
--------------------------
9 to 9 is a -5 or 7
that 9 to next 9 is another-5 or 7.....so we count 7+7=14
that 9 to 13 is another 4 steps up.
thus 14+4=18
18 is too large to conform to our 0-11 western music scale formulas so
lets subtract an octave from it.....thus 18-12=6
So now we know that 9 on g to 13 on a = 6 chromatic steps up the interval chain OR we could say 18up or -6 down.
Notice that quite a bit of math goes into correctly knowing intervals that span a larger area.Basically anything moving from 1 string to the string below it or above it (in your head)on the same fret moves in 5 or -5 depending on the direction.The only exception is b string which moves in 4 or -4.
This is because of how the guitar is tuned in standard tuning.
Its a lot to soak in but so worth it!

[satch]

Lets get crazy and go with a wild approach to scales to show the creative process.
Im going to use harmonic minor intervals only to see what we can come up with.Im doing all this without playing it on the guitar so i wont know
how they will sound but it will give me patterns to mess with.
Im using variations from these intervals...2...3...5...7..8....11...0
octaves/inversions/ommisions/chord shapes etc..........................


---------5----------------------------9--------------------------------
------5----------------------------------------------------------------
---6------------5--------8--9----11------------------------5--6----------------------------------------------------------------4--6-7-----------
---------------------6------------------------4--7---------------------
------------------------------------------5-----------------------------



--------------13---12----15--------------------------------
---------11-------------------15-14--------------3--------
------0-------------------------------15--14-----3--------
---11---------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------3--------

[AaronM]

that 4 in the first post should be a 3 if its the root....

im sure most of you knew that, just clearing it up for beginners who might not know the fretboard that well yet....

[oogitsmelol]

Ok... im getting a little lost again. You threw me off with the 11 and the 18, dealing with the addition and stuff. I guess i kind of got it before, enough to get by with what you were saying earlier... Can you give me an example that stays on 2 to 3 strings? When you just all over the place, i get lost. Thanks for all your help though... i really appreciate you working with me and tryign to help me figure it out.

[satch]

I kinda figured that might be too much to take in.
Lets simplify this by using top(low)3 strings.
Im also only going to reference from scales root and not a mode.

------------------------------------------------------------(high e)
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
----3--------------6---7---------------0--3---------------------
----5---------------------0---2--3--5-------------------------------
----(5)-----5--7-8------------------------------10---------(low E)

Now to test this.....find the distance from (5) to ea. of the notes
in the tab above.Use the "barre" approach like i showed ya.
Every note above should be.....0....2...3...5....7...8...11 chromatic steps
away from root(5)
IF any number you come up with is larger than 11.....then you are dealing
with octaves.Mentally you will have to realize that numbers minus their
octaves are still in the scale.

[oogitsmelol]

ok, let me see about this. I didt really understand the barre method. But i think i might be starting to get it. Ok you start with the (5), so thats a 0. then the 5 on the A string is +5. The 3 makes that a +8 right? Then you go back to the root 5, so does it start over since you went back 8 places? i am going to guess that it does, so now we are back at 0. 7-8, tats a 2-3. up to 6-7, I didnt get that, would the 6 be 11? I am probably screwing this all up, but ill keep on anyways. 0-2-3-5, that should reset and go up to 5. so now we have a +5. Taht 5 should be the same as that 0, and then the 3 makes it an 8. Then you come back 3 places to teh 10, and you end up with a +5 in the end? did i do that right? I understood it better earlier, but i had to help my friend with somehting, and now i dont seem to be getting it as well. Let me try this for just a sec. Would the 7 go backwards since you went up an octave, and if so, what would it go to? So confused. I probably did this all wrong didnt i? I really do appreciate your working with me though.

[satch]

Looks like you got the numbers correct.
The important thing is to make sure the direction your going in finding your intervals.
Good job.

[oogitsmelol]

sweet, thanks for your help.... now if i will jsut ever get myself around to actualy applying it. I suppose i will eventually. Thanks, thats pretty cool, how do you come up wit stuff like this? just screw around and say hey, thats cool, i think ill post in on the internet and make some newb smash his head against the wall trying to figure it out? Thanks , i really do appreciate your help.

[chris_harper]

not to sound like a smart a$$, but isn't this the national number system, or like it? my step-dad (has been playing electric guitar for 25+ years) taught my mom the bass guitar using the number system 20+ years ago.

[satch]

I dont know if it is the same thing since this method is just 1 of many
that i use that i figured out on my own.Its basically just a chromatic
number type system.If you were actually meaning to say nashville numbers
then no this isnt like that.Nashville uses roman numerals which dictate
the degree of the scale and whether its minor or major and how far the chords
extend into the 1 or 2 octave range.

[chris_harper]

i have never heard of the nashville numbers system. my step-dad called it the national number system, but said everyone calls it the number system for short.