question on chord construction

[ledhead2112]

i'm confused on why they tell you that the third degree of a minor chord is flat well not just a minor but in general when they tell u a degree is flat for example lets say in the c maj scale 1 3 5 makes c major well when they say 1 3b 5 for a minor do the mean that the third note of the triad is a flat or are they saying make the third note of the triad a half step lower?

[Hannu]

Im not sure if I understand your text. Using dots might be a good idea :) The better the thread is the better the answers will be...


To the bisnes:

Here is something for you http://www.cyberfret.com/theory/index.php . Learn about "basic chord construction".

>>>
"...for example lets say in the c maj scale 1 3 5 makes c major well when they say 1 3b 5 for a minor do the mean that the third note of the triad is a flat or are they saying make the third note of the triad a half step lower?..."
>>>

C major scale (key of c major): c d e f g a h = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
-> 1 3 5 = c e g

c d e f g a h = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

-> 1 b3 5 = c d# g

Now take a look and you'll notice that in c major chor there is only notes: c, e and g. And in c minor there is only c, d# and g.


Scale formula for major is 1 3 5.
Scale formula for minor is 1 b3 5

There are also other chord formulas in "basic chord construction"'s last page. The lesson will continue when Cyberfret Dude gets it done. Im waiting it myself with excitement :)

[ledhead2112]

hmmm the only problem is c minor is made up of C# A# F according to all the chord indexs i've looked at and C minor isn't part of the C major scale which brings me back to my qyestion why is it number like that when all the minors in the scale are 2 4 6, 3 5 7, 6 1 3
Dm Em Am
what i mean is you can't make any chord out of C D# G basically all i'm saying is you can't get C minor out of the c major scale it's impossible so why is the formula for minor 1 3b 5 when it seems like it should be 2 4 6 or 3 5 7 etc etc

and believe me i've look at alllllll the lessons in the theory page hannu:p

[broke]

btw, if my music theory doesn't fail me, i believe c minor is C, D# and G, just like hannu said.

i think i get what you're trying to say.

for the key of C major, you can build 7 diatonic chords,

C major, Dm, Em, F major, G major, Am, and B something (i forgot)

C minor would not be a diatonic chord of the C major scale (meaning it cannot be made up from purely the notes of the c major scale, since D# does not belong to the c major scale)

More importantly, the fact that C minor is not a diatonic chord of the C major scale does note mean it cannot exist...

For example if you look at the key of B Major, i think it will give you B major, Cm, Dm, and so on.

Only in this case will 2 4 6 give you Cm, it depends on what the root is.

1 3 5 really refers to the scale degrees of the SCALE, so when they say 1 3b 5, it means to flat the third note of the scale to create the chord.

therefore, the first note of the c major scale is C, the flatted third note of the same scale is D# and the fifth note of the scale gives you G

My god this sounds horrendously complicated, i hope you understand, if not maybe someone else can come along and explain it better than me:D

oh and this is my first real post trying to hope someone and for that maybe cyberfret should promote me to 2nd fret !!! ok just kidding.

[ledhead2112]

yea i'm a complete idiot just to be sure C minor is x31013 right? what was messing me up was there's a flaw in the chord finder program which i was using to check my own work sorry for the hassle i under stand it now oh but just one other question why dont you have to flat the third degree of a diatonic minor?

thanks!

[broke]

yep C minor can be that, although that looks pretty awkward to finger
you can do away with the highest (pitch-wise) 2 notes and still have C minor, i.e x310xx

All the chord spellings are in relation to the major scale.

e.g major is 1 3 5
minor is 1 3b 5
major 7 is 1 3 5 7

if you flat the third degree of the minor chord, you would get uhm, nothing conventional: 1 (3b)b 5, in other words, 1 2 5 (again, this is in relation to the major scale)

I don't think you will find this formula anywhere, because it doesn't sound pleasant or for some other harmonic reason way beyond my understanding.

[ledhead2112]

thanks alot dude i got everything cleared up now

[broke]

glad to help :)

[Josh Redstone]

Originally posted by broke
btw, if my music theory doesn't fail me, i believe c minor is C, D# and G, just like hannu said.

Sorry to be the picky one, but it should be written like C Eb and G. After all, there are no sharps in the key of C minor.

[wild_axeman]

C Major triad is C E G (1 3 5)
C Minor triad is C Eb G(1 b3 5)

C Major Scale is C D E _F G A _B (1 2 3_ 4 5 6 _7)
C Minor Scale is C D EB F G Ab Bb(1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7)

[John Prophet]

Basically the word 'diatonic' just means "7 tones" so a diatonic scale is one with 7 notes, just like a pentatonic scale has 5 notes.

A major chord is made up of these notes 1-3-5
A minor chord is made up of these notes 1-b3-5

"flat" just means "down one fret"

So the only difference between a major and minor chord is the "third"

When they say "third" they mean the third note of the scale...they dont mean the third note of the triad.

hey man, dont worry 'bout the confusion, this stuff confuses us all! hehe

JP

[MetallicaGirl]

"Flat" and "Down a half step" are the same thing. And everything else JP said.