Wild Horses Help

[xwiredx]

I'm trying to learn the GNR version (Slash and Gilby Clarke) of Wild horses. But I don't know what scales they used to improvise the first part of the song. I only have the tabs when the rhythm comes in. Anyone know how to play it or got any idea what would work for the improv part in the begining?


These are the chords:

G Am Bm C F D.


Oh yeah, I was watching it on the Use Your Illusion Tokyo concert vid if anyone has it.


Thanks!

[John Prophet]

Thats straight G major/eminor except for the F chord. So this is one of those instances I spoke of in the other thread about using a different mode for one chord only.

So over the F chord you could use g mixolydian,or even G blues scale maybe, or you could just keep playing G major but just dont hit a major7th (f#).

To make the most of that chord situation you will notice that the F has an f note in it and then the Dmajor has the F# in it...so you could emphasize the f note over the F chord and then the F# note over the D chord.

Or you could just sort of ignore it and play gmajor pentatonic over the whole thing including the F chord...see, in this progression, like I said before..some of the "modal" sound is built into that f chord...just the fact that the F chord is from another scale will make your lead sound different even if you keep using the g major pentatonic the whole time...in that case you could say "the chords are doing the work".

Or, as I said, you can really emphasize the f to f# thing to make it stand out....the only catch there is sometimes it can sound a bit "pretentious" or "forced"....in other words sometimes you can tell when a guy is like really waiting to get to a certain spot in the chords to play a pre-determined lick. Sometimes it sounds kind of "fake" to do that. I think Vito Bratta of White Lion sounded that way sometimes...you could tell he was really "painting by numbers" and trying to be too cute and "over-melodic".


By the way I have no clue what they were actually playing since I havent heard their version. Knowing slash he could have slipped G blues scales in there at several spots. Guys like him have improvised so much that they dont really think of scales etc per se, they just use a lot of feel and ear and they can move between many scales without much thought....but if you try some of the ideas I stated you will have plenty of stuff to work with.

Youll figure it out, JP

[xwiredx]

Thanks again JP,
What do you mean by G Mixolydian? If I'm playing a G Major scale (all shapes) from the 3rd fret, that would make the Mixolydian shape a G already right? Or would I have to move it around or something?

[John Prophet]

no.

G mixolydian is G A B C D E F

G major is G A B C D E F# G

So I was basically saying over the F chord play G mixolydian since G mixolydian has the f note in it. And G mixolydian is only 1 note different than G major so it would fit there pretty easily. (but sometimes you dont want it to fit nicely, sometimes you want to make something a little "jarring" etc)

As far as playing all the different shapes (modes) of the G major scale...
G major = a dorian = b phyrgian = c lydian = d mixolydian = e aeolian = f# locrian. All those modes are the same notes, and the same as G major. So really over the whole progression its G major, OR you could play any of those modes I listed cuz they are the same notes..BUT the only chord being a different mode at all is that F chord.

Over the f chord you have some choices. You could play G mixolydian, which is only one note different than g major, so it wouldnt really be all that "different" or "wild" sounding...OR..you might play a g MINOR lick over the F chord which would be a little more out there sounding, it could be really cool though...and the reason you might play a g minor lick is because F is in the key of g minor in a standard g aeolian type progression..like eflat f, g minor..a standard g minor progression. SO over the f chord you have some choices of stuff to play.

Sorry if its confusing..its late and Im tired, lol.

Ill look back tomorrow and post again if it looks bad then, lol.

JP

[xwiredx]

Wooo big thanks JP!

You always give me damn good replies man thanks! Yeah it's starting to clear up little by little. By the way, I got the song down for whatever tabs I had for it, but just have to improvise the improv part in the begining part.


Oh yeah,
I got all my Major scale shapes off of Cyber fret, but there were only these:

Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
and Major again.

I did'nt see anything about Lydian or locrian. Are they supposed to be with the rest of these shapes or what?

[John Prophet]

yeah they all go together..they all show up in the same order everytime..like this

Ionian
Dorian
Phyrgian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian

I learned to remember them using this sentance made from the first letter of each mode "If Dora Plays Like Me, Alls lost"

But I saw someone on this forum or another using this, which is easier maybe "I Dont Play Loud Music After Lunch"..hehe

I D P L M A L

Thats the order.

So if you are in a aeolian at the 5th fret you can start it on aeolian and then count up all the other modes and what fret they are on.

aeolian 5th fret, locrian 7th, Ionian 8th, dorian 10th, phyrgian 12th, lydian 13th, mixolydian 15th.

Or you could state them like this

A aeolian, b locrian, c Ionian, d dorian, e phyrgian, f lydian, g mixolydian, a aeolian again.

All have the same notes.

JP

[xwiredx]

Thanks man!

I wonder why Cyber Fret is missing the Locrian and lydian?

[John Prophet]

its a communist plot of some sort.

[xwiredx]

Originally posted by John Prophet
its a communist plot of some sort.

:D

[Mr B]

is that the Rolling Stones' song "Wild Horses" by any chance?

[John Prophet]

yep. Stones song.

Thats one example of something I said in another post somewhere that mixolydian is often used in pop songwriting...whenever you have a major key and you have a flat 7th...for instance you are in a major with a g chord...it is mixolydian.

A lot of times when you have a major key and a flat 7th chord you also have the 5 chord being major also...the 5 chord being major gives you the maj7th of the scale because the 3rd of the 5 chord is the maj7th of the scale! (confusing, I know) for instance in wild horses we have the key of G major....we all know the key of gmajor has an f# note in it. BUT in wild horses we have an F chord thrown in...so as is usually the case we also have the 5 chord being major ...the 5 chord of Gmajor is D major...D is the 5th note of G scale. So in the Dmajor chord we have the F# note...so there is usually an interesting feel when you go from the F chord with the f note to the Dmajor chord with the F# note. That is in a lot of pop songs...the mixolydianish flat 7th chord and then the 5major chord from the major scale.

the song "freebird" by lynyrd skynyrd is exactly the same. The chords are G,D/F#,em, F,C,D...so again its the same story...you have the key of Gmajor but you have that F chord thrown in...and then right behind the F chord we see the Dmajor chord also...so we have that sound that is like a little psuedo modulation thing. But its not real blaring or jarring...that is why it is often used in pop...it gives a cool sound and some extra stuff for the singer to play off of, but its smooth and almost non-noticeable. Natural feeling.

I would think most of AC/DC is mixolydian cuz they always use A,D,G in their songs. of course we all know that even if it is an a major chord that you can play an A blues scale or minor pentatonic scale...so even if its mixolydian the solos are bluesy. Also of course a lot of the tonality comes from what the singer sings.

JP