Ohhhhh The Pain Of It!!!

[muskrat]

I have been playing now for only a month, and now it seems more than before after practicing for maybe 30 minutes, I get massive cramping up in my left hand and arm, to the point where I have to stop. It was there in the beginning, but now it seems when I try more challenging stuff involving a little more moving and streching of my left hand, the pain is getting bad especially in my forearm and wrist. Just wondering is this norrmal? does this go away eventually?? or am I more weak then suspected??

[Problem Child]

No, it is not normal. And I think that it's impossible that you're too week. You don't actually need strenght to play guitar. It could be that you're pressing the string too hard. It seems to me that there's something wrong with your left hand position. If you feel any pain, you could injure yourself, so better stop, and work on your hand position. Read the lesson at Cyberfret (I think it's in the first fret section). And take this seriously, coz there's really a danger of injuring yourself. I had a similar problem. When I was playing while sitting, I didn't feel any pain, but when I played standing, then I felt a strong pain in my hand when playing the G-chord. My guitar was just too low. I rised it and the pain was gone. Hope it helps, but I also hope, that someone else will repply ti this topic, coz I actually don't know too much about the hand position.

[bobcat]

OK Muskrat, have a seat, we need to talk!

Unless you are very young, it is not logical that your muscles would be that weak. You are using VERY small muscles in the hand and forearm and you are possibly using them more intensely than what they are accustomed to. The muscles will adapt (over time). Be sure you are taking frequent breaks from your practice and stretching the hand/forearm. DO NOT play through the pain! I would STRONGLY advise that you seek medical advice. If possible, see if your doctor will refer you to a physical therapy facility that follows the sports medicine approach to therapy. They will be able to give you stretches and strengthening exercises for the hand and forearm. In addition, they will be able to break up any inflammation or scar tissue that may be forming in your hand/wrist.

Try these stretches/exercises until you can get in to see your doctor. For stretching, open the hand as wide as you can and close it again. Hold your arm out in front of you (palm side up) and with your other hand, GENTLY take hold of your fingers on the out stretched arm and pull the hand downward and back toward you (from the wrist joint). Next, keeping the arm in the same position (palm side up) stretch the hand upward and toward you. Do this until you feel a stretch, NOT until it hurts. Then turn the arm over (palm facing downward) and repeat these stretches. To help strengthen the muscles, sit with your arm resting on a table and hand hanging off the end of the table. With the back of the hand toward the ceiling, move the hand up and down (bending from the wrist joint). Next, turn the arm over, so the palm side of the hand is toward the ceiling and repeat. Another exercise has you in the same position and turn/rotate the arm over and back. The entire forearm will be moving from the elbow joint on this one. Next, with the hand still hanging off the end of the table and arm supported on the table, the thumb facing the ceiling, move up and down from the wrist joint. Lastly, hold your arm down at your side with the palm of your hand toward your leg. Moving from the wrist joint again, move the pinkie finger side of the hand toward the ceiling. These exercises can be done with a small hand weight. (one to three pounds) DO NOT do them if pain is present!!!!!

If you continue to have pain after you are finished with a practice session, ice massage the hand and rest it. To ice massage, get a foam cup, fill part way full with water and freeze it. Once frozen, peel away the top portion of the cup and rub over the hand/wrist area. This is usually done for about 10 minutes. You may also want to check with a pharmacist as to which over the counter pain medications would be right for you. Some over the counter medications will interact poorly with other medications or health conditions that you may have.

In addition to all this, take a look at the basics. How are you holding the guitar? Are you using a "death grip" to push the strings down? Does the string action need to be adjusted? How heavy are the strings you are using? Does the guitar fit your body size? Are you sitting correctly? What does your arm position look like? Are you using a music stand? Are you sitting in a cushy bean bag chair? Look for anything funky that may be the cause as well!

It would be best for you to seek medical advice to rule out any serious problems! Please strongly consider this! Take advice from other musicians that have had tendonitis or carpal tunnel in the wrists...it ain't no fun!

:p

[muskrat]

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess I should clearify the pain itself is NOT a massive pain that has me rolling around, its really more of a discomfort or cramping. Also I will half to admit as Bobcat eluded to I DO use what is called a "death grip" to try to play cetain things, to the point where my knuckles look like they are going white, I just seem I have a hard time playing chords where all my fingers are in use. I pushway to hard on my 1st finger and not enough on the rest so the the strings aren't sounding off correctly, so to compensate I push harder. I haven't taken any lessons, just a book, videos and cyberfret of course, so it may very well be improper hand positions. When I play i usually sit upright on my couch. I will definatley check out the first fret section on cyberfret to see if my hand positions are way off. Like I said my last post I am a rookie and have so much to learn, but so far I love it, and I seem to be getting it rather fast (I Think), but I think I have to go back to the real basics before I go any further. Again thanks for taking the time th reply, any more advice will be appreciated.

[bobcat]

Aaugh! I do like the sound of discomfort versus pain better! That may just be the muscles adapting to the increased workload. Try to use the stretches and strengthening exercises to help with this.

Watch out for the "death grip"! It will get you into trouble and slow you down in the long run!

Stop and stretch at the first sign of pain and see your doctor as needed! :p

[eische]

.....and as we are on pain (it's not really pain, but I feel, say, a sort off overworking like pushing too much wheight for too long a time)......
I seem to have a problem with the thumb on my playing hand, I can't go on using it too long, too fast on the bass-strings, just for one one-and-a-half-minute song three times in a row (mostly thumb, little 1st and 2nd finger playing)......any good advices on that one too????? Is there any possibility to improve the strenghth of my muscles on the thumb (except playing)?????

[bobcat]

Gotcha covered!

Gonna need a couple of items to help with this one. The first is a tennis ball or softer rubber ball. One that will fit comfortably in your hand. Practice squeezing this. It will help strengthen the hand and forearm muscles. Next, get a thicker rubberband. Loop it around your thumb and first finger. Now pull the fingers apart so as to create resistance (NOT pain) with the rubberband. When this becomes easy, use two rubberbands together. (This can also be done thumb to other fingers as well)

Playing will also help to strengthen the hands. Practice relaxing the hand as you play and using a looser grip rather than a death grip on the guitar. As in all my posts... DON'T play through the pain, stop and stretch, work on strengthening all the muscles in the area, and most important... see your doctor as needed if persistent pain develops! I am into sport training... I'm not a doctor! :p

[eische]

well, yes I heard about the tennisball-thing: The problem is, that always strenghens the whole hand, but I don't have problems with any of my other fingers playing (middle and little finger are the strongest) and I don't have any problems with my grip-hand (even though I don't know what power chords are, but I don't focus so much on chords, just prctise them here and there, if needed)
Thanx though, maybe I try the rubberband thing - what do you think of these chinese-klinging-balls???

[Jasper_e]

have some minor cramps sometimes too after playing a while but this is not normal.

It Could be RSI, maybe you should ask your doctor.

Jasper

[bobcat]

Sorry for the delay! Been out of town...

I have never tried the chinese-klinging-balls. Not sure if I know what they are. Are they the metal balls that have a bell like sound to them? I have known of musicians that use them for hand coordination and such. Never tried them myself. I would vote to give them a try! If there is any pain involve, stop using them! :cool:

[eische]

--- Are they the metal balls that have a bell like sound to them? ---

well, yes they are... I don't know how they are called in english really, but I have a pair of them (they always come in pairs) to relax may hand after writing too much - and they are great for that purpose. I just wanted to know if they may have a good effect on the strength of the hand for guitar-playing too?????? (usually they just train the flexability, besides some esoteric messaging effect on the nerves inside your palm that is supposed to heal the whole body, blablabla)

But there is no pain in using them, never was - and it's not a REAL pain I have in the thumb. It just feels worn out and shaky after using it too much, just like your arm would feel like after pushing up not two but four kilos ten times in a row (I'm not hercules' sister, you know) -
BUT: I don't stop playing then, just changing to a song with not so much thumb-using in. It wears off after a couple of minutes.

[bobcat]

Hum... not sure if they would work to help strengthen the hand. An increase in strength comes when there is an increased stress/resistance put on the muscle. I have never used those, but they always looked to me that they were more for flexibility and stretching. If your thumb is feeling worn out and shaky, that sounds like it is the muscles working to adapt to a higher demand. When they feel that way, stop for a couple minutes and shake out the hand and stretch. This feeling will pass as the muscles develop. Take it slow in the beginning stages and stretch! There are LOTS of little muscles working really hard in the hands. Be sure to use as relaxed of a grip as you can. I would use the chinese-klinging-balls as long as there is no pain involved. :p

[muskrat]

Thanks guys for all your replies, the discomfort has stopped!!! I think honestly I just had to learn to relax my grip ALOT!!! I was holding on for dear life most of the time with some wierdo death grip.....but my hands are getting used to it, and things are alot better now!!!

Thanks....

[eische]

If your thumb is feeling worn out and shaky, that sounds like it is the muscles working to adapt to a higher demand.
my thought.... (sighs, oh how long will it take)

When they feel that way, stop for a couple minutes and shake out the hand and stretch. This feeling will pass as the muscles develop. Take it slow in the beginning stages and stretch! There are LOTS of little muscles working really hard in the hands. Be sure to use as relaxed of a grip as you can.
hmmm, did you notice that I was NOT talking about the grip-hand, but about the playing one??????

I would use the chinese-klinging-balls as long as there is no pain involved.

don't mind, yeah, I gues I just play on and see what happens (how long???????) and I will intense these chinese balls to a regular thing and not just on over-written phenomenons......

Thanx for the caring, but it was never a pain to be seriously disturbed about.....

[bobcat]

It usually will take 6-8 weeks of strength training before you will even begin to notice changes. Keep working and stretching! :p