Modes via Natural Minor Scales!

[Deva]

Ok, I am a total guitar newbie, I've only been playing since September. I have a very cool guitar teacher, however, he has a tendency to, after I've asked him a question regarding music theory, go off on somewhat of a tangent and talk about stuff I've never even heard of before! Anyhow, I know what modes are, and I have an *idea* of how they work. I know there's Dorian, Ionian, Phyrian, Lydian, etc. One time my teacher was talking with me about modes and he said, "Do you know the fingering for the Dorian mode?" I said, "No!" And he mentioned that if say I wanted to play the Dorian Mode in A, that I could really just play the natural minor scale, though starting from a different note. I can't remember what he described then! Could someone help me out? Sorry I can't explain this better :/

[MadMattUK]

This should help dude

http://www.cyberfret.com/theory/modes/101/index.php


:D

[Deva]

LoL, don't worry, I've been there! I actually printed the whole thing out and read it. It's very helpful, but I didn't see anything mentioning natural minor scales as substitutes for modal scales. I know that works, because I actually did it under the instruction of my teacher, I just can't remember how! It was something about putting my pinky on the tonic rather than my 1st finger......ggrrrr

[MadMattUK]

what modal scale u trying to play?

well for A natural minor the scale is constructed as


A B C D E F G A


D Dorian is constructed as

D E F G A B C D

Now watch this

A B C D E F G A----
------D E F G A C D

Its the same notes just starting from a different position. So to play D Dorian using the A minor shape u would start on D on the pattern

-----a-----------------
-----e----f--------g--
-b---c----D-----------
-----g----a-----------
-----D---------e---f--
-----a---------b---c--


So basically its just the same pattern but making D the root note. U would do the same to play E phrygian for example. Just start on E and make it the root. Or C major, start on C and make it the root.

To play A Dorian using the A minor shape is impossible because they are made up with different notes, but they are similar in shape. So ur tutor probably means to shift from A minor to A Dorian uses very little effort due to their similarities. Im not sure tho what ur tutor was getting at. Here is A Dorian. Compare it with A minor above.

A B C D E F# G A

As u can see the only difference is that the F of the natural minor is sharpened. So the Fingering would be

-----A-----------------
-----e---------f#--g--
-b---c----d-----------
-f#--g----A-----------
-----d---------e-----
-----A---------b---c--

I hope this has cleared any quibbles :confused:



http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/guitar/index_rb.html

This is an awesome scale chart finder thingy. Gives u all ur patterns across the fretboard.

[Griffin_Page]

Here. This should prove helpful too.

Starting from A Natural Minor, you would go:

A Aeolian (N. Minor)
B Locrian
C Ionian (Major)
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian.

Starting from a major scale, for instance C, you would go:

C Ionian (Major)
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian (Minor)
B Locrian

Notice they're the same? This is called relative minor. A is the relative minor, so C Major is actually the 3rd mode of A Minor, and A Minor is the 6th mode of C Major. This is how you do it.

Take an A Minor scale, which is ABCDEFG. The first note is the Aeolian Mode, the second the Locrian, the third the Ionian, and so on. Starting from a major scale, the first note is the Ionian Mode, the second the Dorian, the third the Phrygian, and so on. It all goes in this order. Hope that helped.

[Decamber]

Similarly, you could say that Mixolydian is the 3rd mode of Phrygian, couldn't you?

[Griffin_Page]

Yep