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View Full Version : FINALLY some actual playing examples of modes..check em out


John Prophet
02-16-2003, 11:57 PM
Ok, I have hinted that I would actually record some new stuff to give examples of some of the modal theory we discuss..I finally went ahead and did it.

I have two examples...one is in A Mixolydian and the other is in BM Aeolian...of course we know that A mixolydian and BM Aeolian are the same notes.

So to make an interesting example I recorded a short jam in A mixolydian and recorded a solo over it....THEN I used the virtual tracks on my roland recorder to record a NEW rhythm track to the solo I did..the new rhythm track was in BM Aeolian.

So in case you didnt catch that...I have the EXACT SAME SOLO played over A mixolydian chords and BM Aeolian chords...I did this to emphasize the point I always make that the chords pretty much define the mode usually.

The A Mixolydian jam is just the chords A5 to G5 back and forth.

The BM jam is Bm Em F#m G Bm A G A Bm.

They are both short, about 23 seconds and they are both at 100bpm (if I remember correctly).

there are lots of interesting points and moments in each jam...but the coolest thing is how the EXACT SAME SOLOS and notes take on different meanings againt the different background chords...I guess you could say this is an example of reharmonizing.

Some points to notice.

Mixolydian jam
.03 you hear what mixolydian sound slike cuz you have the A major scale and then you have this g note over the g chord.

.08-.09 Kind of interesting where it bends to F# note over the g chord so it gives a slight gmaj7th sound...to approximate this or to hear what it sounds like, play the chords Amaj to Gmaj7th...after all any piece of music can be reduced down to a chord if you take an instantaneous snapshot of it...so instead of actually PLAYING a gmaj7th chord..here the solo guitar IMPLIES a gmaj7th sound.

.08-.09 also cool is the way the whole step bend to f# is held and then bent another half step to g and vibratoed.

.11-.16 this lick is pretty much in what you would call the "BM aeolian" position..in other words the aeolian scale at the 7th fret...this lick took me forever to get right...Im pretty sure Ill never recreate it, hehe. Thats music for ya. if you listen closely youll hear where it is actually two notes together for the last second or two.

.16-.17 this ending lick that lands on the a power chord with the notes C# and A is totally A major but in the Bm jam it lands on a g chord so it is totally lydian sounding since the c# is the sharp 4th in the g lydian mode. It really gives a suspended sound over the g chord since it is a 4th (c#) and a 2nd (a) related to the g chord.

tab for that last little doublestop lick at.16-.17 is something like this. The pinky stays on the 10th fret b string then its ring, middle, index for the 9th, 7th and 6th fret.

e-------------------------------------------------
b--------1010--1010--101010------------------------
g---------9-9---7-7---6-7-6------------------------
d-------------------------------------------------
a-------------------------------------------------
e-------------------------------------------------

That last doublestop is a major 6th interval, same as this more conventional fingering

e---------5---------------------------------------
b----------------------------------------
g---------6---------------------------------
d-------------------------------------------------
a-------------------------------------------------
e-------------------------------------------------

Even if you cant play as fast or whatever, you can still get the same melodic type thing happening...for instance once you get in your ear what the c# a doublestop sounds like over the G chord in a BM progression, you can duplicate it whenever you want to.. Its basically the vi chord of an aeolian progression with the sharp 4th and 2nd of the vi played over it. Or you can look at almost like a vii chord played on top of a vi chord. Interesting stuff.

In the Bm jam the last note gives a bm7th sound since it is an a notes over the bm chord.

Enjoy (dont ask for tab, lol)

A mixolydian jam http://tinyurl.com/5xw6

BM aeolian jam http://tinyurl.com/5xw7


Youll notice that after you listen to the Bm jam a while that it sounds more normal in a way, its cuz we are more used to hearing either aeolian or ionian most of the time.

let me know what you think...do you hear the difference in sound of the modes?..which do you like better? etc etc.

JP

Oh yeah, by the way, this is the first stuff Ive recorded in like 18 months...my playing is a little different and I TOTALLY forgot how to work all my gear, lol..I was thumbing thru manuals like I was studying for a final.

existence
02-17-2003, 06:08 AM
the mixolydian track sounds so Vai-ish, probably due to the mixolydian and the lydian chords. I can actually differentiate solo into parts which sound lydian, mixolydian and minor. Thanks alot JP!!
Hmm your recording sound different from that first time you posted some of your work, did you change your style or something or u just used a different sounding mode

John Prophet
02-17-2003, 02:30 PM
Sounds different for all kinds of reasons Im sure....for one thing I have not recorded ANYTHING in like a year and a half....so naturally that makes it different...PLUS some of that other stuff is as old as around 1996..hehe, a long time ago...and some of it was recorded with a 4 track, some of it was live at church or at a jam, some of it was with my ibanez and fender stage180 transistor amp where this stuff was with my strat and carvin tube amp and also the SM57 mic is going thru a berenger tube preamp which changes the sound some. Some of my older stuff was with a cheap plastic mic that came from an old school cassette recorder lol.

These two should sound most like "demo song 1" and "demos song 2" from my other stuff....but most of that other stuff is another guitar and another amp, another microphone, another room, different effects etc...plus the fact that as a player you will change over time...not only your playing changes but your whole personality etc so you wont even MIX stuff the same way etc.

maybe Im just moody when i record so it depends on the mood, lol.

here is a whole list of my stuff online, you might not have hear things like "moody sunrise" or "okaneechee springtime" or "kings xish" lol....most of that stuff was in 96 thru a art effects box with no mic or speaker at all, it was all direct so it naturally sounds TOTALLY different.

Desert miles is E phyrgian.

The first link is my little webpage where most of my stuff is but the other links are to stuff thats not listed on my webpage.

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/Okaneechee Springtime.mp3

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/Moody sunrise.mp3

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/Release Me.mp3

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/Desert Miles.mp3

http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/Kings X ish.mp3



http://members.toast.net/jusjoking/River_end_solo.mp3



You ought to hear some of my OLD stuff from around 91ish, that stuff is a trip...but the recording quality aint that great and the playing isnt quite as good, but the IDEAS are cool, lol.

JP

distr0ided
02-17-2003, 04:40 PM
its strange... different parts of the solo stand out to me on each track. between the two, as far as which one sounds more 'normal' i think the beginning of the mixolydian and the end of the aeolian sound more conventional. cant explain it, those are just the parts my ear is more drawn to. just lemme know next time you're in the houston area, id gladly buy a leson off u ;) sorry, you're on your own for airfare though :p but hey! i got a fold out couch thats really comfy as long as you refrain from, well... folding it out.

John Prophet
02-17-2003, 06:09 PM
Well I didnt really think of it at first but I should also do a rhythm in D major for that same solo since the Dmajor Ionian is the "parent" mode of those modes...so it should sound good in Dmajor also but again it would be totally different.

Yeah, Ive slept on fold out couches before, they are usually better folded in! lol.

JP

StrawJam26
02-19-2003, 10:14 AM
JP, These are some really good lessons on modes. I like the sound of Desert Miles. I'm guessing that Em is kind of your "home" chord in E Phrygian? What I was wondering is, is there certain notes of a mode that you have to emphasize to get the sound of that mode? I know all of the modes have a characteristic note, but do you always have to play that note to get the sound of the mode, or can you play the mode w/o playing that note, and still get the sound of it. Hope that makes sense.

John Prophet
02-19-2003, 11:23 AM
Well, in that song and sometimes in others the sound of the mode is already more or less in the chords...so with desert miles it is the chords em,cmaj7th and fmaj7th..well once you play an f of any sort in eminor it gives the phyrgian sound..so actually in that one the phyrgian sound is sort of built into the chords.

So remember that you have melody AND harmony...the sound of the mode can be in either one or both. The melody and harmony add up to give the overall sound.

JP

StrawJam26
02-19-2003, 02:31 PM
Thanks JP. Modes are starting to make A LOT more sense to me now that I see how they are used.

John Prophet
02-19-2003, 03:56 PM
Well I am glad someone is getting something out of the two examples I recorded....with all the questions about modes in this forum I figured that a few actual examples would help a lot...you know "a picture is worth a thousand words"....I figured this thread would be 30 posts long by now...hehe..oh well.

JP

John Prophet
02-19-2003, 03:59 PM
And to further comment on the use of modes...its not like when you use a mode that is has to be way far out freaky sounding thing...often it is hardly noticeable...sometimes it is so natural that it sort of goes unnoticed....mixolydian can be like that...probably cuz it is used in pop a lot and it is kind of smooth sounding.

So sometimes modes really stand out as sounding "different" but sometimes they are barely noticeable.

JP

StrawJam26
02-19-2003, 10:16 PM
JP, When it comes to Sus2 and Sus4 chords, are there ways to play "modally" with chords of that type?

John Prophet
02-20-2003, 12:54 AM
Well the main thing about sus2 chords or sus4 chords is this..they are NEITHER minor nor major....so for that reason you have some variety as to what you could play over them.

for instance if you have a progression of Asus2 to Dsus2 then you play a lot of different mode choices because in your mind you can "pretend" that both chords are major and you can play ionian over them.

or you can 'pretend" that the A is minor and the D is major and that would be dorian.
now when I say "pretend" I mean that over the A you would pretend it is major by playing a major over it...in a sense you arent pretending you are actually "making" it major by playing a major scale over it. See, a sus chord or a power chord is sort of like a blank canvas and you can either paint it in major or minor, etc.

or you could do stuff like play A major over the Asus2 and then play A aeolian over the dsus2...back and forth like that.

But you also have to remember WHICH chord the sus2 or sus4 is...for example if you had this progression.....fsus2 gmaj aminor...well, thats really just A aeolian all day long..just because the f is a sus2, in this case, doesnt really give you much more freedom because an fminor there would sound pretty lame.

BUT if you had Fmaj gmaj Asus2...ahh, now thats different...now you either play a aeolian over the whole thing OR you can play a aeolian over the f anf g, and then play something like a mixolydian over the Asus chord...or you might get away with playing Ionian over the Asus..I say maybe cuz Ionian has a maj7th, which in this case is G#..so maybe the G# might not go too well since the progression just had a G in it...sometimes it matters how long you stay on each chord too..if you stay on the a for several beats then you have time to mess with it more..whereas if you are repeating the chords a little faster you might have to stick with mixolydian over the asus2 chord. But I am just guessing here...some of it just depends on what YOU think sounds cool.

but here are a couple easy ways to get some modal sounds in your ears.

Record the progression Asus2 to Dsus2.

Now, solo over those chords and try things like this.

Play amajor over the A chord and aminor over the D chord. One thing to try just for fun is to play a lick in the relative major which in this case would be F#m and then over the D chord come up three frets and play the same (same shape) lick. That would mean you are playing a major over the A chord and A minor over the D...and what you can do is play the same lick or almost the same lick, first in the F#m position and them in the A position.

Maybe thats confusing...so I mean something like this.

----Asus chord--------Dsus-chord---------
e----------------------------------------
b---5-3-2-3-2---------8-6-5-6-5------
g-------------4-2-----------------7-5--
d--------------------------------------
a--------------------------------------
e--------------------------------------

That will give you the sound of switching from major to minor...and just for fun you can reverse it and play minor over the A chord and then major over the D.


To get the sound of changing modes you would try to emphasize the changing right at the chord change...in other words at the tail end of the A chord play a C#..and then right on the D chord play a C...thats going from major to minor right on the change.

Or just before the change from a to D be playing an F# note and then right on the d chord play an F note....that is a cool one to try...since you will have the f# sound in your ears but on the chord change you go to the F which is the minor third of the D chord...so it gives a particular effect.

And basically everything I have said about the sus2 or sus4 chords also works with power chords since power chords are neither major nor minor.

I will make some more examples soon...just real basic stuff showing easy ways to experiment with modes over simple chord changes, like power chords.

Later dude, JP

StrawJam26
02-20-2003, 09:46 AM
JP, Good stuff as always man.. Any more examples you could give would be great.

wild_axeman
02-21-2003, 12:22 AM
JP your posts are really helpful!

Thanks for all of this stuff you've been sharing.It's really easy to understand the way you explain this stuff and putting it in an actual context is just an awesome help! All of your examples have been really great.
I'm finding this all to be a really easy way to learn (from someone with some experience like you).Thanks for sharing some of your expertise with us dude,it's been a real eye opener!

Thanks alot bro -- keep up the good work!

wild_axeman

:D lovin it!

John Prophet
02-21-2003, 12:51 AM
NP, glad to share. Oh by the way I am working on some instructional cds!! hehe (pitch pitch).


JP

wild_axeman
02-21-2003, 01:01 AM
Oh by the way I am working on some instructional cds!!

Hey,why not ? You've got the goods IMO! You seem to have the teaching knack.Are you gonna do your own site and the whole nine yards? (what's that URL again?) :D

John Prophet
02-21-2003, 07:30 PM
hehe, Im not quite ready yet, lol..but maybe not long. Ill probably have CDs ready first. Well see. Might try to sell a few on ebay etc.

JP

distr0ided
02-21-2003, 08:44 PM
id buy em, assuming they come with some sort of explanatory text, etc... i couldnt just pick it all up by ear, though that would probably prove to be great practice

John Prophet
02-21-2003, 09:32 PM
Well obviously they would have tab or some other form of diagrams etc...hehe, you see the length and detail I put into my posts??? Naturally the cds would be the same or better (or worse). Putting in full and thorough explanations isnt a problem with me..lol...to me thats what teaching is..its assuming the student knows NOTHING and then showing him in an easy to follow manner.

JP

Griffin_Page
02-22-2003, 01:14 AM
Sounds pretty good, i like how you used the modes. I play modes a little differently than you, but then i don't anyone else plays them like me... I like the sound of Desert Miles, nice job!

het
02-28-2003, 08:42 AM
John Prophet - Could he be "The One"?:)

John Prophet
02-28-2003, 10:12 AM
If you would have heard me play yesterday you wouldnt have thought so, lol. I have those days about 1 out of 3 times playing when I wonder why I even bother...tone sucks, timing seems to suck etc.

JP

het
02-28-2003, 03:00 PM
I guess it's your mood that gives an accent on your playing(probably):D ;but yeah thinking about it every person that creates something should have days like that-maybe even great guitarists or orchestra music composers(even Picasso that had probably a bad mood aal the time)-yeah and i'm noyt being ironic,sarcastic about it....every artist has to have days that suck,even me lol!!

het
02-28-2003, 03:01 PM
don't get the wrong idea i know Picasso was a painter lol1