Enslaved to scales?

[kevinsane]

I'd have to say I'm somewhat an intermediate guitar player. I'm beginning to have fresh sounding improvision and such...especially w/ blues and rock.I was just wondering how strict some of you better players are when you improvise. Do you look at your options (notes within the scale) and THEN throw out a line? Or do you hear a line in your head FIRST....THEN visualize which notes would make that line?

[Perfect4th]

I think of music as speaking a language. When a thought pops into my head and I want to express it, I speak.

I think along the same lines with the guitar. I hear in my head the phrase, then play it, or attempt to. :)

That's where speaking the "language" fluently is important. The better you know the language of music, the more you'll be able to say.

Peace!

[tcd12642]

Originally posted by kevinsane
I'd have to say I'm somewhat an intermediate guitar player. I'm beginning to have fresh sounding improvision and such...especially w/ blues and rock.I was just wondering how strict some of you better players are when you improvise. Do you look at your options (notes within the scale) and THEN throw out a line? Or do you hear a line in your head FIRST....THEN visualize which notes would make that line?

Yeah. Hehehe. I agree, music is a language... people say, "Do you know how to read music?
;)

[John Prophet]

Personally I usually just automatically know what scales are proper wayy before I am ready to do any leads....you basically should already know that when you are laying down the rhythm...and sometimes you put down the rhythm chords to allow or setup a certain mode etc.

I rarely "hear" things before I play them..at least I dont think I do...I more or less just feel it out etc....then again I could be accused of "letting my fingers do the walking"....of course I remember a quote by Jimmy Page where he says that after all his years of playing he still cant play what he hears in his head....so I dont feel too bad about it.

I think a key is being able to learn from yourself...in other words while noodling around you sort of hear something you like and you then figure out what it was....like when writing a lead or instrumental I usually just goof off until I get a bit that I like, I keep that and I start punching in from that point to try to get the next phrase....somethimes during that process I might hear what I think would be cool next but its not like I hear it all in my head beforehand...I would usually be as surprised as the next guy at what I play.

And to add to that another interesting point....knowledge of lots of theory is both a great assett and at times a slight hinderance....for instance I would rarely "find" some of the cool notes and melodies and runs that VanHalen did because he didnt really go strictly by any certain scales when he did those long ascending and descending runs...he often just used symmetrical patterns....but in my head I know I am playing notes that dont quite match the key so I might avoid them. So in that respect theory can be sort of limiting.

So if you know all the theory it might be a little harder to get really interesting parts because you are only playing what "matches" the key....of course you save lots of time not having to figure out what sounds ok cuz you already know what matches the key but it is a little harder to really "experiment" if you know lots of theory.

Just an observation, please dont flame me.

JP

[wild_axeman]

WOW...

just to add to things...

First of all what perfect 4th said was ,well, perfect.Just to add to it I'd say that you also learn language skills from copying others.

You can learn the language of a style of music by really getting into it that style and learning songs and then looking at what they did,especially the parts you liked alot.There are some common "tricks"(musical words and phrases) within each style of music.

It all relates to language.Imagine if you spend alot of time in a different country like Australia and then you come back to the U.S. and you've brought back an aussie accent and some of their expressions.Or maybe you just visited the Scotland and you come back with a Scottish accent(or maybe you've just seen the lates Mike Myers movie?,lol) Well music is like that too,you can really get into punk and be making punk yourself in no time.It might take alot more time and work to play something more complex than punk.Blues is another pretty easy style to learn.Rock is cool because there are no rules...there's alot of blues influence and country influence(put those together and it's kind of rockabilly),add some distortion and a driving beat and you're rockin'.Then you can basically mix in any musical style you pick up on and incorporate it into rock.Rock is like the musical universal language.

moving on...

I can sort of hear it before I play it sometimes and sometimes I can't at all so I can relate to all these posts.

I like what you said John P about PAGE ( :) ) and also about sort of plotting your scale in advance so you know kinda where you are going to be playing and then doing an improv in the moment.

It's all relative!

If you can hear it and then play it it's coming from your subconscious and therefore should sound pretty good instead of some contrived crap you thought too hard about which will usually sound like cheese! That's just a half-assed way of composing! If you are going to compose then compose!

Then there's knowing where you're going and doing a spontaneous improv within those parameters.

It's all good.

[Griffin_Page]

I play about the same too... i take a scale and play the heck out of it.. Today just a few minutes ago i started playing a rythym in E Phrygian, then going crazy soloing, going back and forth between A Aeolian and E Phrygian. Almost sound like trade-offs that sounded great together. I can't always play what i hear in my head, but if you know scales and have a good idea of what additional notes will sound good, then you're good to go in my opinion. Just never ever repeat the same thing 4 times and call it a solo.. the local punk band does that and everyone thinks he's this awesome guitarist... pisses me off heh.