sexism

[rebekahaha]

today i went to a music shop to get some stuff for my new guitar, and the blokes in there just treated me like i'm thick and dont know what im doing just because im a girl. does anyone else get it? i sent them an email just now to tell them how awful i think it is. :mad: :eek:

[jaytee]

i think i would get more of that if i didnt always have my husband with me.....but since hes with me they tend to show a little more willingness to help....like they realize they wont have as much opportunity to "take advantage" of me...and in the end they realize i have more to say than he does....i think that helps....

really the first time i went into a store to buy something i was so nervous.....i let my husband play the guitar i had picked out for me....because i knew nothing.....and i just kinda stood back and watched how he talked to them....and kind of realized i should get more involved and make more effort....because buying an instrument isnt like buying a tv....its more personal...

last time i went to a shop i felt alot more at home.....and i wasnt treated "like a girl"....

maybe you could ask a male friend to go with you....if they think hes the customer at first youll get more respect by the time they realize YOU are the customer....and eventually theyll know who you are....

doesnt sound right and you shouldnt HAVE to do it....but its just reality.....salesmen see women as easy targets....

good luck

--jt

[Slash]

Why dont you just show them what you know .. and then Shut 'em up...hehe
:D

[bobcat]

I use to be on the opposite end of that...

I worked in a guitar shop. When I would approach a male customer that was looking for a guitar I was often told that they would wait for a male sales person. So, I would call Dumpy (that was his nickname, need I say more?) from the backroom to wait on them. When the customer would ask questions about what wood was used, how it was made, what the warranty was like, Dumpy would turn to me and ask me! I would give them my best chick smirk and walk back over to sell the guitar!

:D

[Mason]

First off, I would like mention that "chick" sales people seem to make me buy stuff WAY more often than males (especially if they are good looking ;) hehe) Second, for some reason chicks that play guitar are usually the coolest girls around. I mean my dream girl would play guitar, which would be awesome! I guess my point is dont mind those stereo-typing jerks at the music store, and keep rockin' cuz theres always guys out there like me who will love the fact that you are a girl who plays guitar! :)

[slaughteredsoul]

When i walk into a music store,i pick up a guitar,and i star playing the little bits and pieces of songs that i know.i'm not good at all,but i know what i'm doing and where im heading. the guys at the music store stand together and laugh at me,but it doesnt discourage me one bit.
They treat me like a bimbo when im buying something,a guitar book,new strings, whatever.Theyre pretty pathetic.i find them amusing,not irritating.
you know who you are, dont let shallow guys like that get to you.:) show them what u really can do,that's the only way to really shut them up.
rock on.

[Coffee]

I'm a guy and don't tend to have the same problem BUT I'll tell you how I'd deal. Go back to the store on a Saturday and look for the part timer. They're much more likely to give you a fair shake. If they do, from that point on refuse to deal with any of the other salesmen and make a point of making sure the manager knows it.

As for guys going into a guitar store, here's the problem we run into. A lot of these guy's get involved in a one upmanship game and try and snow you rather than give you productive information. If you know your stuff you simply blow them away. If you don't, you have to look for the person who will talk at your level. If you can't find a salesperson who'll give you the time of day, ask a customer if they know about it. If they do, introduce yourself to them. They'll be flattered and you're likely to come away with a new friend. Whether a customer, friend or a salesperson gives you information, verify the info by trying it out.

Frankly, my favorite salesperson is about 22 years old and I'd buy just about anything at her recommendation. She gives you what you need, doesn't get into the ego thing and gives you the time you need to figure out what you really want. If she doesn't know, she tells you so.

Don't take their crap. If you've got the cash in your pocket when you go in to look stuff over, show them, then show the manager, then walk out. I did this in Calgary once. I sat down to try out a guitar and after playing about 3 minutes, another guy (a customer) sat down with me and we started jamming. We were cooking. We were drawing a crowd and the next thing we knew a salesman came over and switched off the amps. We were giving the guy free advertising and he was choked. Can you believe it?

I asked to speak to the manager. The manager was called and I told him how disgusted I was about the way I had been treated. He told me that "You weren't going to buy anything anyway, you were just goofing off. I want you to leave the store." That's when I pulled out my wallet and showed him the $1000 cash that I had brought with me 200 miles to buy a guitar. My new friend (my jam partner) laughed and told me we were in the wrong store anyway. We spent 2 hours in another store looking at whatever we wanted without any hassles. I bought an Ibanez.

If you can't get a fair shake move on to the next store. If this is the case and you have to buy from someone else, give it a couple of years. When you buy your Les Paul, walk in and show it to them. Then tell them why you didn't buy it from them and walk out. Oh yeah, tell all your friends.

[rebekahaha]

thanks everyone. this place rocks im gonna love it here :D

[kitara]

At age 15 (... age can be another problem ...) I went to a music store, because I was looking for an e-guitar. The customer seemed to have a really big ego, he always treated me just like "a 15-year-old girl can't have any knowledge about guitars, only a real pro can". I had the feeling as if he absolutely didn't want me even to touch a guitar, as if I'd break it immidiately.

In fact, he didn't have any real guitar-knowledge himself ...

I never went to that store again, found a much better one, where they really help me, answer my questions and don't only try to sell their stuff.

[rebekahaha]

well, im only 13. i look alot older than that but still younger than them..

[even though they all looked about 7..]

[Levinson Blade]

what about newbieism is that a word? when ever I went in a music store when first starting out i was treated like 'hey what are you askin' these stupid questions for' it put me in mind of an old monty python sketch about woofers and tweeters in speakers
anyway These people should remember we all had to start somewhere wether your Male, Female, a guitar virgin or Jimmi Hendrix we spend our cash so give us some customer service

[rebekahaha]

*and* all i asked for was a d string..i mean, not hard..


grrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRrrr

[Chickwithapick]

Hey, chicks with pics rock! And there's not enough of them out there! I think it's awesome when a chick can get out there and play her own guitar and really rock, not hafta be some *eeew pop princess*! That's why I love Jennifer Knapp so much!

[smfulla]

you know what's pretty funny, well maybe its not funny but anyway
when I was starting out I had exactly the opposite problem. Becoz I'm a guy, I look fairly older than I am, and I have long hair, they stereotyped me into being a metal head (which I technically am) who knows eveything about guitars. Back then... I didn't know JACK! Infact I didn't know which jack to stick the lead into =]
I went to the music store, asked to try out this guitar I liked. They were like "Ahh, nice choice. How's that action for ya? Nice and low for those fast licks aye. Give us a sample of your stuff. I bet you're into metallica and megadeth and the like. How do you find the fret width? Large enough aye? Here whip in this whammy bar and give us a couple of dive bombs" I was totall dumb founded by this guy's jabber. All I ended up playing was Enter Sandman which I had only ever played on an accoustic.

I ended up buying that guitar by the way, and it was utter carp, the frets were buzzing hard after a couple of days and the pickups gave alot of hum. The volume knob got really loose and the strings were getting really worn on the piece of carp tremolo. I ended up selling it for $100 NZ (bout $49 US) which was half of what I bought it for. After going to guitar.about.com and reading up on their guitar buying guide, and sum other sites, I came back into the shop, said I was going to play sum guitars and buy one. I showed of as much as I could =] (This was like say after 10 months of putting up with that carp guitar) and I ended up buying my Ibanez RG270. It is an awesome guitar, but I'm gunna be buying another guitar later on. Jackson RR1 =]

[gck]

Well, my view of such things is that basically everyone is driven by some sorts of prejudice and all we can do about it is trying to ignore them.

For example, like others who posted in this topic, I am also attracted by girls who can play guitar. However, this attraction is also a prejudice: I see them play and it implies to me that they are interesting which they probably aren't, if you get the point.

For salespersons, it's probably even harder. They have to judge their customers by their appearance because they want to give them the most suitable tips for them. If you are a pro, you want to be treated like a pro, if you are a beginner, you want to be treated as such! So they'll try to classify you by their subjective feeling which is influenced by what you look like, your sex, your age etc... All you have to do is to tell them wether you know exactly what you are looking for or if you need their help!

Of course, there are sexist, "agesist" and racist people out there. We have to live with them as we can't change them even if this would be nice. We should at least be happy that this forum is (at least what I've seen so far) free of such unfortunate people!

You can't change them, but you can change yourself. Think about it when some people disappoint you, for example! Did you expect more from them because you fell victim to one of your own prejudice? Don't ignore your feelings, but try to think about why you have them... Tolerance should be the word of the 21st century!

[F-art]

You are right that it is hard for salespersons to figure out what kinda person you're dealing with. But the only way they can figure this out is to ask a few questions, and LISTEN. I am a salesperson ( I sell kitchens) myself so I know what I am talking about. the only problem with employees of a guitarshop is most of the time that they aren't salespersons at all. Most of those guys ( or girls) are just a dude playing a guitar or other musical instrument themselves with a great deal of prejustice indeed. Not only on the side of the customer, but also in the fact of equipment and stuff.

For example, they play a gibson guitar, so you (as a customer) has to play one too. Only problem is that they have a '63 and you are buying a new one which isn't the same because they have changed factory which has put a downfall in quality ( my opinion btw). So they have only played that Gibson and never an Ibanez but they automatically figure out that Gibson is way better.

So, what salespeople have to do is listen to their customer. The way the first question is asked is most of the time a very good indicator on the experience level someone is at. For example:

1. uhhm, I am looking for a guitar amplifier.... do you have those

-Guitarshopemployee reaction: Duh, this is a guitarshop
-The reaction should be: OK, this guy is new at this. If I play my cards right, give him the info he needs and do this the right way, I can have a customer for life. ( this is the way I think it works anyway).

2. I need some pics .73, and oh yeah, I am also looking for a new whammie pedal what do you have?

- Guitarshopemployee: Let's see if I can throw this guy off
- The reaction should be: He knows something, let's find out how much he knows and them try to sell him what he needs.

The Salesperson should always adapt to your level of expertise, because you are the customer. If he get's annoyed because you don't get him, it is NOT your fault, it is his, he can't explain it properly.

The best way to prevent this from happening anyway, is checking the info out on the internet, you can do it at your own speed, with ease and not with someone breething down your neck that you have to buy something. then, with last questions, go to the shop and ask the salesperson and make a deal. that's the way I do it most of the time anyway with stuff I have to buy that's expensive and I know nothing about.
Also, ask it on this site too!!! I am under the impression that the peeps here are most helpfull in these things.

To conclude this story: In my opinon, there should be no difference between male or female, old or young. I will most easily be beaten in a guitarsession by a girl of 13 years old than I can beat of a 50 year old dude who has played for thirty years.

[Jameseh]

i have to say, i never have these problems, last time i went into a guitar shop, i asked for an ibanez semi-acoustic off the top shelf (i couldnt quite reach!), the guy was extremely helpful got the guitar and left me and my mate too it. maybe im just really lucky eh

but chix with pix do interest me alot, i think a lass who can move them fingers faster than i can has gotta be worth talkin too, i might even learn some stuff! dont none of you girlz get discouraged by sexist f**ks, keep on playin!

[rebekahaha]

hehe cheers i never let people get to me and playing my guitar totally rocks. i'll show them when i get good..ive found that the other branch of this shop [which is in the place i shop at the most, actually] has great staff who just do what you want them to. i think its because of the age of the other ones..the ones in this shop were older and really cool

[the_doors_girl]

hi
i had the same thing happen to me. i go into a guitar shop knowing exactly what i want but then the male sales person trys to give me something simular or of a cheaper quality. that pisses me off so much because i know what i want and i am asking of assitance to get that item but they thing that a women will change ther mind so i will just pitch them the cheaper quality product then they will buy it. i hate that so f**ing much. all the major stores here do that to me. or they will just not even ask me for help. i say fight them and show them that you are hot **** and that if you give me crap i will not buy anything and report you to your manager.
keep on rocking guitar women

[gck]

@F-Art
Yes, I agree that being a salesperson in fact *is* an art of its own. Last summer, I worked for a computer retailer as a salesperson. And I had exactly the same problem that you have described: I've had a sony notebook for over 3 years now (the on I'm currently typing on) and have never every had any problems with it. Therefore, I encouraged the customers to prefer Sony equipment.
The problem is, that most customers do the same: one might have better experience with Toshiba and therefore I can say whatever I want, she will stick with Toshiba!
Personally, I always let the customer decide (because this was my first job and I didn't want people to complain about me).

To come back to the topic, sexism and other prejudice, I believe that all prejudice comes from personal insecurity. For example, if you say all mathematicians are nerds, you probably say that because you are somewhat jealous: mathematicians know and understand something that you don't, therefore you want to compensate your own weakness by stating that "in constrast, you hava social life and they don't". Didn't you ever notice that all the sexist people have problems with initimacy with women etc...

To overcome prejudice is mainly a process of getting over one's own insecurities. Once you are in balance with your own life, you will see others with different eyes, not as somebody you have to compare to or compete with, but as somebody different from you, not more, not less valuable than you.

Illustrate this with the example of guitar playing: just because somebody doesn't play as good as you, he/she isn't a "less valueable" human. Also, they don't need to compensate that with something. So saying "ok, he can't play well, but he's a good basketball player" isn't the right approach! He just can't play. period. He's a good basketball player. period. And above all, he is as valuable as I am, completely independent from his talents, his opinions etc...

I think that is the key. I try to live it. Of course, some people don't like me because I don't join them in diminishing others, because my refusal to do so makes them insecure as they feel like doing something wrong. And we are at the beginning again :)

[Chickwithapick]

Most of the salespeople I've talked to have been pretty cool. I went looking for Baby Taylors the other day and the guy was really cool. He's like *Can I help you?* and I'm just like *I'm looking for your Taylors* and he just showed me the room where they were, and asked if I was looking for anything in particular and I told him and he went upstairs and found a Big Baby in the back and just showed it to me. He never tried to sell me anything else or anything. Of course, I had my dad with me, but my dad didn't say anything, so it was all me, and the dude was still nice!

[MetallicaGirl]

hey rebekahaha...first of all your name rocks cuz it's the same as mine...that is if your name is Rebekah....ok so ANYWAYS...I personally love guitar stores and would live in one if I could, and I've never had a problem with the guys. I don't know, maybe it's cuz I've never tried to pay attention to what they think about me. But you know, if someone did something like they had done to you, I would be amused like one of the girls said earlier. Stuff like that can be pretty hysterical, and getting angry or trying to get even is something I personally oppose- basically I wouldn't have even wasted my time writing them an email. If I started doing stuff like that at every corner, everyone would think I was a feminist, which I'm just the opposite of because guys rock, as we all know. And I personally think that the guy musicians in the rock world are damned better than all the chicks put together, but that's just because none have proven themself yet, like I, the Queen of Rock'n'Roll, shall do. So anyway, there's my two cents. Peace out, rock on- ;)

[MetallicaGirl]

"Second, for some reason chicks that play guitar are usually the coolest girls around. I mean my dream girl would play guitar, which would be awesome!"

We need more guys like you.

[Mr B]

everybody needs more girls who play guitar. I have yet to see a girl in a guitar shop, or (with the exception of the bassist in JJ72, who is all woman) playing live in a band for that matter. Ironically, music, the universal language, is stupidly unequal, and (a great new word) ununiversal.

[Jools]

Wow, I didn't know we have so many females in here!

Go on! Don't let anyone stop you! Don't get intimidated by some jerks in a store.

[MetallicaGirl]

Hey! I've played in a live band before, although we broke up, so it's no longer. But you know, I'm searching for another band, one that I don't have to put together myself because I've done times before and it hasn't worked. I need to join a band that's already formed, or a solo singer lookin for a guitarist. But you know, until that time comes, I'll just sit here and play my little blue Stratocaster...

[bluezjam]

In my experiance predjudice is just lazy thinking, it is easy to think of all the guitar shop customers as the kind that will give up when they find they can't learn in a day.

As for sexism, i find most guitar shop sales people are pretty rude anyway. I brought a wah wah pedal yesterday and the guy behind the counter gave me a look like "you want what, you make me sick".

Lastly I agree with the others here female guitar players are cool, my only critisim is there is not enough of them. :p

[fizz]

Jools!

I always thought you were a guy!

I thought the same with suppanetiere and smfulla at first, tehehe.

The female Ash guitarist is great. I love her!

[Mr B]

not as great as PJ Harvey or Kim Deal

[JiMi=GoD]

*Jools is a girl!?*

:confused:

coulda fooled me!

rob

[popmusic_sux]

on the topic of female guitarists, anyone hear of the donnas? i sure hope so, they're a really good all-female band. how 'bout kittie? even though the one guitarist left, they could still beat the crap out of blink 182. any other female bands out there i should know about?

[suppaenitetere]

i am a guy...

[fizz]

I know youre a guy now lol.

Dunno why I thought otherwise. Perhaps your name at the time. Who knows. The truth is out there...

[BloodXero]

i dont get ... men all through time have treated women like crap. property ... lower humans ... prizes ... "accesories". its really disgusting to think how bad they treated women before us. you hear all this stuff in history classes about women having absolutely no rights. i mean ... why did they do this, because women overall as a gender are built more slender and less muscular than men? just because someone's different from you and vulnerable for you to take advantage of doesnt mean that you take advantage. i seems that even today many men's views of women are still pitifully. i myself (a 14 year old guy) treat any of the girls i know like all the guy friends i have. even when terribly pissed off i usually treat them better than the guys around me (unless of course they're the one that set me off). i think that even though it seems that women's respect from men is greater than past times its really gotten far worse in some aspects.

[popmusic_sux]

me too, i try to keep the upmost respect for women... its just too bad that, up until now, i never went out with one worth getting involved with. all the other girls i went out with are the type that needs as many guys as they can just to make themselves feel wanted. its too bad i didnt realize this until after the relationship. so finally i got a girl that's actually worth going out with, and i love her.

and i must say, this is a very popular thread, unless i read it wrong, it said there were over 900 views.

[Jools]

Originally posted by fizz
Jools!

I always thought you were a guy!

I thought the same with suppanetiere and smfulla at first, tehehe.

The female Ash guitarist is great. I love her!

i thought that would confuse people, hehe, but I am male as I've said before a few times. Anyway, I was just rooting for the girls to play electric guitar or guitar at all. Whenever parents send out boys to music school they buy them Violins, Guitars, Drums etc... Girls usually get flutes and pianos, no guitars (so cliche).

[BloodXero]

DISCLAIMER:

in this post i do not intend to offend or morally harm anyone in any way. if you are offend please feel free to tell me how you feel. my apologies to any offended. i will not blame you for any rude remarks. also, i am not pointing any fingers at anyone, im just making a broad statement meant not to offend but to inform of my opinions ...

today even SOME women seem to have less respect for themselves (some and deffinately none specifically). what im talking about is giving themselves away ("being a slut" ... if thats what you wanna call it [no offense meant]). pornography pretty much didnt exist until the modern age. people didnt flash around everywhere ... even though they didnt have TV and computers there were other ways. though i admit TV and computers spread it all over the place, the women back then were more "morally stable" and personal about themselves. these days some have turned into porn stars, sex objects, prostitutes, and willing to give themselves to the next guy they see. i just think its pitiful and immoral for women to do this. i dont know if anyone else feels like this but thats my opinion.

PS. props to those taking crap from guys ... i apologize for their actions as a fellow male.
PPS. chicks with picks do rock (literally and not)

[jaytee]

lol....well....almost blood...
prostitution is, after all, one of the oldest occupations in the world....lol...its even in the bible...
difference is, 50 years ago women were just EXPECTED to put up with all the abuse and controlling from men (in most cultures anyways, some still keep their women 2nd class citizens)....these days, with things like womens lib, its ok to tell men to get lost....
i think im pretty lucky...my husband EXPECTS me to *let him know* when im fed up...he doesnt take it personally....and hes pretty good at keeping me as an equal...you cant do everything *to* or even *for* your girl...you have to be able to do things *WITH* her first of all...(altho sometimes its necessary to do things alone...for you and for her)
ok babbled enough....

by my account, most of the people here are guys....the few girls, well most of their names are obvious
i.e. MetallicaGirl
Chickwithapick
rebekahaha

there was one that i cant remember who it was but i was surprised when i found out they were a girl....maybe ill go look...

then of course, theres me :)

--jt

[fretfire]

I'm a guy trying to get in touch with my feminine side so I can enjoy shopping with my wife.
;)

[popmusic_sux]

blood, are you talking about what i think you're talking about?

[jaytee]

ummmm....ok....i dont think we really need to talk about this do we? i got a bad feeling about what that was supposed to mean....lol....

just remember....there could be a young kid somewhere reading this....and this IS supposed to be a "family" site (in other words...appropriate material for all ages)



oh and... remember this old thread?http://www.guitarlodge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2492&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

slaughteredsoul is also a girl :)

so is E-String (shes in and out occasionally)

and yes i keep adding names when i find them....lol...you arent crazy...this post has been editted like 7 times...

[fretfire]

Good point Jaytee, I edited my post to make it more family oriented. :)

[jaytee]

LOL oh my god....LMAO!

that was good....:):D

[BloodXero]

sorry ... sorry i deleted it. i hope that makes you feel better. well it really is true (not gonna explain anything more). also, ya i remember that long thread. i still got no pics of me though. i try to get some stuff at school as an aide but i cant find anything. i dont have a digital camera or a scanner ... i wish i did.

[jaytee]

its ok blood! dont go feelin bad or nuthin ;)
it really doesnt bother me personally...but i just thought we really oughtta guard ourselves a bit more....esp since recently it seems weve strayed enough to get shawn to actually boot people....id rather just...let people edit themselves sometimes :)

anyways i thought of one other thing it could have meant...more probable even....and it wasnt as bad as what i first thought of....so who has the awful mind now? who me????
lol:eek:

--jt

[deftones]

wish i knew what you were all talking about...

[The Fury]

Hey, anyone know what happened to Slaughteredsoul? I quite miss her.

[Daledude2]

i love my store, the guys are nice to myh mom.... shes the easiest person to take advantage of.

[Mr B]

there's book you can get called the "Girl's Guitar Tuition Pack" or something, I has this hippy lookin' chick on the front with a heart shaped guitar and it's flowers and colours and stuff. Somehow, I don't think that such publications are a solution to the problem.

[BloodXero]

lol, doesnt sound much like a solution but a failed attempt at getting a book published (its truely successful but who cares ... doesnt sound like anything anyone i know would buy).

... my post didnt seem that bad ... but some person named animalchin added something unacceptable in the thread you got linked ... the "whats everyone look like thread?".

@jaytee, i missed you're post before (pages got me screwed up). yes i know prostitution was around long before our time. no i didnt know it was mentioned in the bible because of my state of atheism. all im saying is the amount of some this stuff has sky rocketed.

[Mr B]

the world's oldest profession is actually accounting, it emerged in the middle east like 7,000 years ago when some wise guy in a grey toga invented money. It makes sense, accounting had to come first because everything else was driven by money.

[suppaenitetere]

If he was wearing a toga wouldnt that make toga making the first profession?

[SixStringMadman]

It doesn't surprise me really. I don't get any decent respect either. Nearly all of the shops I've gone into are full of nothing but conceited a-holes. I just buy what I need and get out.

SSM

[fretfire]

Originally posted by Mr B
the world's oldest profession is actually accounting, it emerged in the middle east like 7,000 years ago when some wise guy in a grey toga invented money. It makes sense, accounting had to come first because everything else was driven by money.

Somebody had to help the hookers count their money. :D

[popmusic_sux]

Originally posted by The Fury
Hey, anyone know what happened to Slaughteredsoul? I quite miss her.

if you really wanna know, we could probably get her email from her profile, and get everyone here to go and bother her to come back. i dunno tho, its just a suggestion

[spiderman]

Originally posted by Mason
First off, I would like mention that "chick" sales people seem to make me buy stuff WAY more often than males (especially if they are good looking ;) hehe) Second, for some reason chicks that play guitar are usually the coolest girls around. I mean my dream girl would play guitar, which would be awesome! I guess my point is dont mind those stereo-typing jerks at the music store, and keep rockin' cuz theres always guys out there like me who will love the fact that you are a girl who plays guitar! :)

couldnt have said it better my self i agree totally all you girls/ladies out there keep rocking in the free world and dont let anybody tell you different becasue i wish i new smoe girls that played guitar a few of them claim they want to. i even offered to help them get started but no dice. well just a few thoguhts from a simple mind. my dream girl would deffinitly play some sort of instrument or luv music as much as me. any salemen bug tell em to shut up go where they treat you right.:D

"temptations" stand by me. wicked song maybe not for guitar but great song.

[Deva]

I've gotten a bit of a different feeling when going in guitar shops. Yes, I'm treated differently because I'm female, but I'm also "looked at" more because I'm 6'1". I feel especially singled out! The big difference I notice between how the same Guitar Center employee treats me and a 25 year-old guy is that he doesn't always look me in the eye when I talk to him. Sometimes I'll ask a question and he'll be looking off like he's trying to find a customer who's more likely a "serious amateur" or "professional."