crazy sustain

[Digs]

Anyone know how I can make my guitar sustain a note for pretty much as long as i want? A great example of this is Trey Anastasio from Phish being able to sustain a note for over 3 minutes. I have a semi-hollow body guitar. Anyone out there have any suggestions?

[cyberfret]

With some good distortion and some compression, you can sustain a note for longer. Using vibrato also will slightly extend the life of a note. But you can't hold a note indefinitely. What you are hearing from Trey is either some controlled feedback, or using something like an e-bow. The e-bow is a small hand held devise that causes the string to vibrate without picking it.

--Shawn

[gck]

I've heard that the weight of your guitar's head also affects its ability to sustain notes. For some, this is just a myth but a friend of mine actually could prove it: he orderd nice ivory machine heads because they'd look cool on his guitar but when he put them on he noticed a loss in the sustaining of notes. Note that all six ivory heads weigh less than even one of the old chrome heads he had. When he replaced them again it worked.
I haven't tried this myself but from the viewpoint of physics, this sounds logical... however, it won't hold the note for 3 minutes!! :)

[jaytee]

well that answers a question for me maybe...

i saw musicians friend sells this weight to attach to your headstock and they said it would add to your sustain......i wondered if it worked....could be i guess....


--jt

[gck]

I'm currently building an electric (yes, I have experience with woodwork) and currently am carving the body.

Once I'm making the neck and headstock, I had the idea to carve a hole into the head, put some weight in there (like a small iron bar, whatever) and the glue a woodplate over it. You shouldn't see that under the finish.

I actually know THAT it enhances sustain, however, I'm still experimenting to find the weight that produces the best sustain without negative effects. For example, it's odd to play a guitar with a very very heavy head.

I've discussed this issue with a friend of mine and we've come to the following explanation to WHY this works:
when the strings vibrate, the vibration is also applied to the body and the neck of the guitar. Although the nut will "absorb" (i.e. lead into the neck) most of the vibration at the head, but some vibration will still reach the tuning machines: for this reason, the whole head will vibrate slightly in synchronization to the strings. So when the strings pull because they vibrate. Interpret the way the strings vibrate as the sine function: when sin(x) is 0 that means for us, that the strings pull less, when sin(x) is 1 or -1, they pull most.
The head will therefore vibrate in sync to the strings i.e. sin(x) = 0 means the head goes back, when sin(x) = 1/-1 it will go forth, thus releasing some of the power with which the strings pull.
That's the reason why sustain suffers from a light head, as it will allow the head to vibrate totally in sync to the strings which lose their energy through that.

However, when the head is very heavy, it is not possible for it to vibrate in sync with the strings. The reason for this is the same power that pushes your body to the right when you drive fast and make a turn to the left (I don't know its name in English, sorry, but you should know what I mean). More mass increases this energy which pulls to the opposite side of where the head wants to go, therefore, head and string vibration will not get in phase (so quickly) and therefore, you have a higher sustain...

hope you could understand what I wanted to explain....

I'm currently nagging my physics teacher to help me in finding the best weight but you can be sure that it will be affected by the string gauge...

do you know how heavy this "weight" you have seen in a catalogue was?

[jaytee]

yeah i get it :) i wasnt very good in physics but my calculus background made your mathematical explanation quite clear...the physics part im kind of at your mercy...hope youre right...sounded good to me...lol...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=011121094919004041060051255033/search/g=home?q=fat+finger

try this link.....once you click the product link....if you click the pdf link under the basic description it gives you more info....i didnt read it all...but it may help you....

id like to build too but id be more interested in acoustic guitars....i know a luthier but hes getting pretty old....i dunno if hed be willing to take me on...he used to teach a class at the university here but they cancelled it several years ago....kinda sucks to be me!

good luck...im a bit jealous :)

--jt

[gck]

Thanks for the link, that helps me a lot!! It says the "fat finger" is about 2-3 times heavier than an average headstock, so that's a good place to start with...
Also, the explanation in the pdf file somewhat proves my theory :)

Wow, building an acoustic is definitely harder than an electric!! However, if you personally know a luthier you have a very very good place to start out!! It's harder to get a good sound as it's produced and therefore dependent mainly on the body, whereas on an electric, mostly (but not solely!!) the electronics count... Hardest part is to build a decent neck even if I have managed to make a good fretboard!! Probably, cyberfret should also open a "Builders" Forum :)

Also, you might want to check out this link:

http://www.integrity.hu/cegek/quart/guitar/

the directory contains some very useful files, "guitar-b.txt" is a builders' faq (however, mostly for electrics). Look at "files" for a description of each...

[Digs]

Trey is using controlled feedback to sustain his notes, i remember reading that his guitar feeds back all the notes since its totally hollow but the same size as a regular solid electric. Is there any way i can duplicate this feedback, be it through effects or something else? i have a Schecter TSH-1 semihollow body and i'm trying to get it to sustain (not as long as trey because that's just ridiculous) but for a good while without really heavy distortion. Any ideas?

[treyphish]

great to hear all this talk about trey.he is a mad man.

[rocket]

sorry this is late coming, but i just had to have my tuppence worth. you can get a sustainer from fernandes its a like a pickup and is attateched in the same way under the strings and it vibrates the string (its battery operated). so basically you can sustain for as long as the battery lasts. there quite expensive and may need to be fitted, but im after one myself.

hope this is more helpful than a bunch of maths!!!!

[gck]

bunch of maths: the "heavy headstock" thing is not meant to sustain a note for minutes, it just generally adds to your sustain and this improves (to my mind) the general sounding of your guitar. The "bunch of maths" was just meant to explain WHY a heavy headstock adds to sustain :)

[rocket]

just taking the micky, didnt mean to offend.

[jdjuice]

theres a thing called an ebow that creates infinite sustain (as long as the battery is charged). I guess it works similar to the thing the guy suggested in a previous reply, except this runs for about 85 bucks and is a little hand held thing. You basically put it over a string, it vibrates the string through a magnetic field, and it sustains for as long as you hold it there. You can also do some strange stuff with it like make your guitar make strange sounds like a flute, horn or cello. You can find it in a bunch of places.

[rocket]

you may or may not have heard of this band but Supergrass use it in their song Mary it's good, but i find them awkward. like the man says though, they are quite cheap.

one disadvantage is they only cover one streing and the fernandes sustain effects all strings so you can sustain whole chords. i doont know of an ebow that can do that, if there was it would be very large.

[muchavo]

this seemed like a thread worth reviving

[nbjork]

2 weekends ago i saw buddy guy in concert (best ever btw) and he held one note for at least a minute...it was funny bc he just sat there holding it looking away and then a stage hand comes over and gives him his drink, and he slowly takes a sip while holding the note. what a showman! great concert

[Sleepyboixcl]

IT was probably a fernandes guitar.

Fernandes guitars are known for having infinite sustain as long as the battery holds out.

You can check em out at http://www.fernandesguitars.com/menu.htm

the ravelle looks awesome btw :p

[popmusic_sux]

IT was probably a fernandes guitar.

Fernandes guitars are known for having infinite sustain as long as the battery holds out.

You can check em out at http://www.fernandesguitars.com/menu.htm

the ravelle looks awesome btw :p

I was actually gonna post that. Fernandes are my guitar of choice, or at least my guitar of choice that I can afford. The sustainer is darn good, even though I rarely play electric. Like you said, you can hold a note indefinitely (or at least 'til the battery dies) and it enables you to get instant feedback.

They sell the sustainer separately for about $200 but I'm not sure if it would work in other brands.

[muchavo]

those are cool but you have to sacrifice a pick up for the kit,

im building a ross compressor right now, trying to see if that will help me out in the sustain dept

that weight looks cool thosugh i might try it, do you guys think it would wrap my neck?

[muchavo]

today i went to guitar center and demoed the groov tubes thing

i tried it on a fender and a taylor

and i could notice a difference

its also hard to think though whe n the weird looking sales guy is following you arould and standing there watching



very distracting

i did notice a small tone change though

overall i dont think it that great

[fuzzynumbskull]

there's active pickups by emg, i think, they'll open up your midrange frequencies and give you more sustain, i believe...

nothing works better than a well built guitar, though.

-amy