jaded by guitar lessons

[barbietta]

Can anyone tell me the topics their instructors are covering during guitar lessons? I just started playing acoustic guitar about 4 weeks ago. I picked up some good beginner books and browsed this and other websites. I have managed to teach myself a fair amound of chords, strumming patterns, scales, fingerpicking, and basic songs. I thought I would add to that by taking guitar lessons, but I've really found them to be quite useless so far. All my instructor has talked about after 2 lessons is how to embellish my chords-only song repertoire by walking the baseline and adding hammer-ons. I am aware of these techniques and could practice them more if I wanted, but I really feel I should be focusing on more of the fundamentals right now. I'm still struggling to make smooth and quick chord transitions and strum cleanly. I would much rather that he help me perfect my technique, troubleshoot problems, and learn about chord theory and "why things work the way they do" at this point. I don't just want to tinker around with this and eek out a few catchy cover tunes. I seriously want to learn to play and write my own songs.

At this point, I don't see any value in lessons at all. I get a lot more mileage by spending my $35 on a good book from Barnes and Noble than on an hour-long discourse about "try this neat trick". I took piano lessons for 8 years, so I have a good grasp on music fundamentals, although I was very young and too impatient to learn chord theory like I should have. I know how to learn to play music, but I need to learn how to do it on this tool. Maybe I don't need lessons at all. Comments? Advice? Wisdom from the Almighty Shawn? I'm all ears! :)

[smfulla]

well when I went to my last guitar lesson, which was before school finished (I take lessons through school) we were doing some joe satriani stuff. I can't remember what song but it was a real work out. I haven't got a good guitar teacher, I've only got a good guitar player. But I've learnt some stuff off of him. Like basic techniques and stuff, I tought myself basically all the songs I know and alternate picking, and I built up my speed and stuff. BUT!!!!! If I had the guitar teacher I had before I went to high school, I would have achieved soooo much by now, coz he was a really good guitar teacher and player, and he was a really cool guy. Soooo anyway, sorry. I suggest asking your teacher to do what you want, coz it is you who's paying him. I'm sure he'd be happy to help with technique and stuff. And if he doesn't, then find a new one. It is really important to have a guitar teacher, they'll help you hard out if you like them and they're good

[gck]

Personally, I'm not so sure if a teacher is really important to learn playing guitar. I had one teach me piano, when I was 7, and I didn't like her, I had one teach me violin, and I didn't like him either. I prefered to learn at my own pace.
I prefer to play together with friends and the like: the definitely do not have as much experience as a teacher has, but you can learn from everyone: they all have different experiences to share with you!

However, what I do is simply practicing/learning on my own, but when I'm feeling to misunderstand things or do them wrong, I take a single lesson and tell the teacher exactly I want to know. This usually helps me a lot. But regular lessons are not so important, I think.

Again, you decide: some people are "auto-didacts" (spelling?) by nature, others need the tutelage of a teacher to achieve what they want. Basically, I count to the first group.

[slaughteredsoul]

When you first pick up a guitar and youre completely lost about where to go and what to do, you feel that getting a teacher would be perfect to guide you and keep you on the right to track about what you should learn first and where to go next etc..in my case, it was laziness, i couldn't be bothered to think much about "ok,whats the next step"..so i thought about taking lessons so a teacher can do that work for me.
i'm not against lessons, im sure many people benefit a lot from them but i agree with gck..you CAN do it on your own ...and with smfulla, the kind of teacher you have is important too. if you dont like the teacher, and feel that he/she is not helping you the way you need to be helped,then lose the lessons. but what i understood from you, is that youre not learning anything,so i think you either change the teacher or learn it on your own.
of course you can always try to learn what the teacher is missing by yourself,at home,and just take the positive out of the lessons.
Luckily, i couldnt afford lessons,so i forced myself to put a little more effort into my learning and im fine!
Dont waste your money on lessons you dont need.
Try doing it by yourself,and if you see that youre not progressing the way you should, get a teacher( a different one from the one u already have)
..and finally, good luck:)

[barbietta]

Thanks for the great advice, everyone. I think I am going to try to learn on my own and take a lesson once in a while when I am stuck. I will probably look for a different instructor, too. Maybe I just got a lemon.

If anyone is interested, I found a really great book on chord theory I'd like to recommend:

Mel Bay Presents
Understanding How to Build Guitar Chords & Arpeggios

by Michael Policastro

ISBN 0-7866-4443-5

The explanations are excellent--very precisely worded--there are lots of diagrams, and each chapter has a quiz section at the end to make you think about the material you read.

Cheers!

[cyberfret]

I am a private guitar teacher, so I will give you my spin on the subject.

2 lessons is not really a fair shake for private lessons. 2 months is the period of time that you need to evaluate a teacher. And yes, there are some bad teachers out there, and there are some really great ones. I personally feel that private lessons are important to your development, especially in the first 6 months. Give your teacher another few weeks, and express your interest in learning about technique and theory. But to be honest, you have only been playing for 4 weeks. I would not be discussing those things with my own private students at that point. I think some basic technique builders, fundamental hand position, chords, strumming, and songs are what you should be doing at first. A lot of theory can wait a little......definitely important, but just not as a first thing to learn.

Yes private lessons are not for everyone. Whether it is financially, or time constraints. But I do think that private lessons will give you an advantage in the long run. That does not mean that private lessons should be your only source of learning. You should definitely buy books, learn from websites, from friends etc. The private guitar teacher is not the end to all, just another resource to help you learn. A lot of my students do not take full advantage of what I have to offer. They come into their lessons without practicing the materials that I have given them, because they feel that what I am giving them is not relevant to what they want to play :) Some then quit lesson after 2 or 3 week, because I am sure that they feel that private lessons are of no value :) But those that do practice the materials that I give them, and stick with lessons for at least 6 months......go out of lessons with a good foundation and the ability to teach themselves much more efficiently.

So before you quit, give the lessons a whole hearted try. Do what your teacher says....even if you do not see relevance in it. Also communicate with your teach. We can't read minds. So if you think that your teacher is taking you in a direction that you do not want to go, tell them. And I have had students express I am not teaching them what they want to learn. Sometimes that helps me change the way I am teaching to hit on their areas of interest. Sometimes that means that I will tell a student that I am not the teacher for them.....and that they should just teach themselves or find another teacher. I will not teach someone in a way that I know is wrong, just because they want to learn that way.

Hope that helps

--Shawn

[55'gibby]

OK heres my spin... the way I see it you have three choices 1) get a teacher 2) learn on your own 3) have a freind who is a well schooled guitarist. I give lessons once in a while my self, and have found that self taught guitarists who take a lesson once in a while have one big problem, they learn things wrong then have to relearn the right way that causes the person a bit of lost time and ALOT of extra work. It's FAR easier to learn the basics the right way, then to have to break bad habits and then learn the right way. I always have explained my method of teaching, and, what they will learn BEFORE the first lesson. If the student wants to learn something in particular I would prefer they tell me... I hate guessing. I typically give lessons in 6-8 lesson blocks, and fully expect that after each block that I don't see the student for a long time before they are back for the next block. Once you have all the basics down, playing with other folks is a GREAT way to become a better guitarist. Most folks don't want to spend the time and effort just to rock their bedroom. Get out and jam with others... it's a great learning experiance.

[gck]

I want to throw one more thing into this discussion: the question of learning something the "wrong" or the "correct" way.

To my mind, there is not only one correct way, but there are several. For example, take the simple action of picking notes: some people strictly alternate between up- and downstrokes, others sometimes "switch" the pattern if picking two following notes with two upstrokes is easier than with up/down for example. If you are up/down person, you will consider the more flexible picking method to be wrong. It is best to do things "the most natural way" for you and as people differ by nature, different people have different preferences.
All that a teacher can do is teach you his/her way of playing. What else could they do? I mean, if somebody came to me and started picking with their left foot, I would say that's not the correct technique but it may feel comfortable for that player (ok, it's an exaggerated example but you get the point!).

To my mind, a guitar teacher is important to help you to learn the theoretical part of music and tell you about the techniques but not instruct you HOW to actually do them. Did you know that in earlier days, left-handed people were forced to become right-handed because people at that time thought being left-handed was wrong. Of course, a right-handed person feels odd when having to use the left hand, but for the left-handed, it's natural!

When I took violin lessons (and I took a lot) my teacher always had me show him what I had practiced at home. I played, and afterwards he said "fine fine, you played it correctly but you don't hold the bow correctly". Even tough my way of holding the bow seemed more natural and more controllable to me than his way. You can do things differently, and stay correctly. I mean, that was like judging a maths exam by the way you got to the result and not the correctness of the result itself!

That's also the reason why I think that learning on your own will lead to faster success (if you have the discipline)... because you can do things "your way", not just attempt to copy another person's style!

[jaytee]

well gck....

ok you are right that just because you hold the bow a way more comfortable for you that doesnt mean you cant play...and im sure that alot of great musicians have their own way of doing things......BUT....

ever take any math in college? esp advanced math? they DO grade by your technique...it can be absolutely vital...mistakes are easily made when you dont do things properly....

id prefer to do things the proper way....and not get sloppy...wouldnt you think its better if its possible?

just my thoughts....

--jt

oh ps! there is a guy named tony melendez who DOES play with his feet! (well he has no arms...so he hasnt much choice :) ) anyways...hes pretty good....even with such a challenge...

[barbietta]

You all have made great points. I think I'll give lessons another try, but look for another instructor. I guess I was disappointed that this one didn't seem prepared with any sort of plan for what I should be learning and when. I wasn't getting any feedback about my technique. He didn't describe how things should feel if you're doing them right or wrong. There were no homework assignments. No suggested reading. Zippo.

Lack of interest or practice is not an issue for me. I practice 2 or 3 hours every day. And while I agree that everyone has slight variances on technique and what feels comfortable to them, there are definitely bad habits I want to stay away from. I've caught myself doing some of them already after reading this site.

I've asked my friends, but no one knows of any instructors to try. Are there cheeseheads on this board who can make a recommendation?

[gck]

@jaytee: I don't know about maths curriculums in the US, but here in Europe, one of the most important targets of a maths teacher is to make people *understand* maths and then develop their own style of solving problems. The personal "record" of my class during an exam was 17 different approaches to solve the same problem where 12 of these where absolutely correct and therefore given a "1" (which is our version of your "A"). The funny thing was that everyone was absolutely convinced that his/her approach was best.

Everyone has his own way of thinking and his own personal advantages/limitations. Another, more guitar specific example is a friend of mine: she's a rather small girl. When she took her first guitar lesson (I didn't play guitar at that time, I was just there for violin lessons), she complained to me that her teacher wanted her to have the guitar sitting on her left leg (like everyone suggests). However, when she did so, the body rested heavily on her left breast, if she angled it a little down, she couldn't reach the higher frets any more. Therefore, she simply put it on her right like and everything was fine. At that time, I didn't know anything about guitars, but when I told her about my violin-bow issue. we agreed that we were misunderstood geniuses :)

Anyways, *understanding* guitar teachers indeed are a great help, however, even if the teacher accepts his/her pupil's different way of doing things, he or she will not be able to help anymore because it's not his/her own way. For example, how should a guitar teacher help the poor person jaytee mentoined who has to play with his foot? Guitar teachers usually don't play with their feet so how could the give any advice about that? Hope you get the point!

[jaytee]

gck...

im not totally disagreeing with you...but for most of us it is entirely possible to learn proper positioning...

that guy who plays with his feet? god only knows how he does it...but hes been recording for many years now...and im sure somebody had to teach him things...he had to work the rest out on his own....whether it was a book that was his teacher or a person...i dont know...but hes certainly an *exception*.....not the rule....

was your friend taking classical guitar lessons? i know on the left leg is typical for classical....but for anything else its the right.....im a small female myself....and have found the left leg completely uncomfortable...just like your friend....i suppose if i wanted to learn classical id try to get used to it...because its proper....

as far as math? only 12 people got it right? im not sure your teacher is doing you any great favors....what kind of math was it?
in something like algebra its ok to do certain steps in whatever order you like...but higher math? some things have to be done before others....12 out of 17 isnt good enough...how many of those 12 will grow up to be mathematicians? probably none...but engineers or something similar? several maybe....id rather have the guy who engineers my bridge do the math right...just my opinion....i just dont think your teacher is doing right by his students....teaching you to think and understand theory is sehr wichtig....we spent a year on it alone in high school....and another year on mechanics....and barely scratched the surface....and i totally agree with you its important to know WHY you are doing what you do....but if you cant follow each others work....whats the point? in future employment other people will have to understand what you mean....you cant really keep your work to yourself....

anyways....arent we way off track? wasnt the question about what other people were learning? how did this get into math? lol....i think well just have to agree to disagree....but not completely disagree....

--jt