shapes in the blues scale???

[ledzeppelinSG7]

does anyone out there know ALL of the shapes in the blues scale. i cant find all of them anywhere, and that one on this site lists them wierd. all i want is a plain list of the shapes in order i think they are all pentatonics with notes added on to them, so there should be 5 shapes. i know that the first one is:

|--1--|-----|-----|--4--|
|--1--|-----|-----|--4--|
|--1--|-----|--3--|--4--|
|--1--|-----|--3--|-----|
|--1--|--2--|--3--|-----|
|--1--|-----|-----|--4--|


if anyone could finish the rest of the shapes id be happy.

thanx

[popmusic_sux]

cant you just take each pentatonic and add the raised 4th to get the "blue" note?

i think thats how it would work, but i wont swear to it.

[Rayman]

Here they are


A Minor Pentatonic (First position)

....5...........7...........9...............
e|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
B|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
G|--o--|-----|--o--|-(o)-|-----|-----|-----|
D|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
E|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|


A Minor Pentatonic (Second position)

....7...........9................12.........
e|-----|--o--|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
B|-----|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|
G|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
A|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
E|-----|--o--|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|


A Minor Pentatonic (Third position)

....9................12................15...
e|-----|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
B|-----|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|
G|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
D|-----|--o--|-----|--o--|-(o)-|-----|-----|
A|-----|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|
E|-----|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|


A Minor Pentatonic (Fourth position)

...12................15..........17.........
e|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
B|-----|--o--|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
G|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
E|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|


A Minor Pentatonic (Fifth position)

..........3...........5...........7.........
e|-----|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|
B|-----|--o--|-(o)-|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
G|--R--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
D|--o--|-----|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
A|-----|--o--|-----|--o--|-----|-----|-----|
E|-----|--o--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|-----|


Hmmm... the [fixed] tag doesn't work. I'll try the [code] tag...

[Perfect4th]

Uh, there are many, many more than that. In fact you can play the Blues Scale (or any other for that matter) on one string.

Learning box shapes is a great way to get started with soloing and improvising, but don't limit yourself to those. You won't go far. The most important part of a scale are the notes and/or intervals that make them up. That's what you should concentrate on, IMHO.

Learn the notes of the A Blues Scale and create your own patterns or better yet, memorize the notes on the fretboard so that you'll know where to go to play any note on scale you are in.

Peace!

[wild_axeman]

Here's some printable ones click here (http://www.teachguitar.com/content/tmbluesscales.htm)

Try adding the major third too!

[Rayman]

Originally posted by Perfect4th
Uh, there are many, many more than that. In fact you can play the Blues Scale (or any other for that matter) on one string.

Learning box shapes is a great way to get started with soloing and improvising, but don't limit yourself to those. You won't go far. The most important part of a scale are the notes and/or intervals that make them up. That's what you should concentrate on, IMHO.

Learn the notes of the A Blues Scale and create your own patterns or better yet, memorize the notes on the fretboard so that you'll know where to go to play any note on scale you are in.

Peace!

I'm not sure about this advice. A lot of great blues guitarists create some great solos out of just the standard blues box pattern. You don't need to learn the whole fretboard before you can start making some great music. You can go very far with just one pattern, as long as you know how to wring everything out of it that you can.

Playing the Blues on one string is possible, but seems inefficient to me. It'd be more of a novelty thing than a serious way to play a solo.

It is a good idea to learn how to move from one box pattern to another box pattern though. If you ignore the bracketed notes in the patterns you're left with two notes per string. The higher note on each string in the first pattern becomes the lower note on each string in the second pattern, and so on and so forth. Slide from one pattern to another until you're comfortable moving between them.

The other thing about the blues scale is it's flexibility. You can add pretty much any other of the seven notes that aren't in the minor pentatonic scale into your solo at some point during the chord progression. I especially like moving the fifth note in the scale down a semitone. In the A minor pentatonic this means you're using a Gb instead of a G. I find it gives the scale a more melodic quality.

So, start off with some box patterns, but figure out how you can add in other notes from time to time by playing the pattern over a 12 bar blues progression. Always let your ears tell you what works and what doesn't.

[ledzeppelinSG7]

well, thanks everybody. why would you want to solo on one string?

[Rayman]

Originally posted by ledzeppelinSG7
Why would you want to solo on one string?

Ask a thrash metal guitarist from the 80's. If you want to solo like those guys, here's how to do it:

1. Get a BC Rich Warlock or Mockingbird guitar, coloured blood red

2. Sling it real low

3. Grow your hair long and throw your head about a lot

4. Plant your left hand index finger at a random point on the high E string

5. Pick the string as quickly as is humanly possible with your right hand

6. Slide your finger randomly up and down the high E string. When you think you've exhausted your musical vocabulary, slide it up to the highest fret, hold the note, grab the whammy bar and energetically pump it up and down a few times

[ledzeppelinSG7]

wow, now that would take a lot of talent

[Perfect4th]

Originally posted by Rayman
I'm not sure about this advice. A lot of great blues guitarists create some great solos out of just the standard blues box pattern. You don't need to learn the whole fretboard before you can start making some great music. You can go very far with just one pattern, as long as you know how to wring everything out of it that you can.

Playing the Blues on one string is possible, but seems inefficient to me. It'd be more of a novelty thing than a serious way to play a solo.

It is a good idea to learn how to move from one box pattern to another box pattern though. If you ignore the bracketed notes in the patterns you're left with two notes per string. The higher note on each string in the first pattern becomes the lower note on each string in the second pattern, and so on and so forth. Slide from one pattern to another until you're comfortable moving between them.

The other thing about the blues scale is it's flexibility. You can add pretty much any other of the seven notes that aren't in the minor pentatonic scale into your solo at some point during the chord progression. I especially like moving the fifth note in the scale down a semitone. In the A minor pentatonic this means you're using a Gb instead of a G. I find it gives the scale a more melodic quality.

So, start off with some box patterns, but figure out how you can add in other notes from time to time by playing the pattern over a 12 bar blues progression. Always let your ears tell you what works and what doesn't.

I don't think you even read my post.

I wrote learning box patterns "is a great place to start, but don't limit yourself to those". Secondly I didn't say to solo on one string (although there's nothing wrong with it) my point was that its the notes you play not the pattern you use. Third, I didn't say to memorize the fretboard before you start making music, but pressing to that goal as you learn the basics will only help grow as a musician.

Bottom line a scale pattern is NOT a solo, but a gathering of notes to create a solo. You will become a better musician understanding why the notes make a pattern rather than JUST learning the pattern.

Peace!

[ledzeppelinSG7]

i know all of this stuff you people are saying about solos, all i wanted is the actual blues scale, so stop arguing, everybody's point was made

[Rayman]

Originally posted by Perfect4th
...You won't go far...

It was this part of your post that I was objecting to. I should have just quoted this bit rather than quoting all of your post. People can go all the way to the top with very little knowledge. Look at Kurt Cobain. Look at how a whole stack of guitar solos in rock songs are played. You do not need to know a scale over the whole fretboard to become a guitar god.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

I thought it'd also be useful to point out that - yes, it is possible to play a scale on one string, but you wouldn't ever do it in a practical sense. I had this image of LedZeppelin rushing off and practicing scales on one string, which would be taking him in completely the wrong direction. By all means visualise the scale on one string, and use that to move between the variety of box patterns that are built on those notes, but don't practice the scale on one string. Unless you're using it as a gimmick, or are doing some two handed tapping, or using the open string note as in the lead riff in AC/DCs 'Thunderstruck'.

And yes, box patterns are just one way of thinking about a scale. If you try to apply your box patterns to a piano you're going to be pretty clueless. If you want to appreciate the difference between a major and a minor scale, the box pattern isn't going to give you the answer. It's all about intervals.

[wild_axeman]

originally posted by Rayman

By all means visualise the scale on one string, and use that to move between the variety of box patterns that are built on those notes, but don't practice the scale on one string.

Don't practice the scale on one string?

Why not?

You have to practice scales on one string at some point to know your way around the fretboard.There's a wealth of learning experience in doing so and a wealth of techniques to explore!

You have to know scales in multiple positions,in root position and non root positions,you have to know caged scale shapes as well as 3 notes per string scales,you might want to explore 4 notes per string scale patterns,you want to know scales on one string at a time and two or more strings at a time to harmonize scales.

I'm sorry but all this requires practice!

Learning and practicing scales up and down single strings is a major part of any guitarists development.

[Rayman]

I'm a big believer in only practicing stuff that you're actually going to use. You know that warm-up exercise that people play that goes like this?:

e|-1-2-3-4-------------------------------|
B|---------1-2-3-4-----------------------|
G|-----------------1-2-3-4---------------|
D|-------------------------1-2-3-4-------|
A|----------------------------------etc--|
E|---------------------------------------|

I practiced that for a while after I saw Vinnie Moore play, and he said he used that exercise a lot. I also read that Steve Vai played heaps of exercises along the same lines.

I thought - well, it sounds absolutely awful while you're playing it, but maybe if you switch off your ears and grit your teeth it'll do you some good after a while.

I then read an interview with Yngwie, where he said that he never practices the guitar. Typical Yngwie comment, I thought. He said that he only ever plays the guitar, but never practices it. After thinking about it for a few months, that comment made more and more sense to me.

Why am I practicing these 1-2-3-4 patterns up and down the strings, up and down the fretboard, I thought? I'm never going to join the 'Magical Chromatic Band' and tour the world, am I? There's something remarkably unmelodic about chromatic runs.

OK. So I'm not practicing those patterns because I'm going to use them. Why the heck am I practicing them then? Aha - to strengthen my left hand fingers, and to co-ordinate my left and right hands. Yes, very commendable. Absolutely nothing wrong with those goals.

But there are always more 'why' questions...

Why do I need stronger left hand fingers?

Why do I need to co-ordinate my left and right hands?

Again with sensible answers. To enable the fingers to play a greater range of runs and to make the notes sound more strongly when hammering-on or pulling-off. To make the runs sound clean and fast.

So then the question begs to be asked - why not just practice the runs you want to play, and play them slowly enough so that you can learn to co-ordinate your left and right hands while you play them? Remove the middle man, just go straight to what it is you want to play. It's more melodic, it's more useful, it's one step instead of two steps.

If someone can read through my reasoning and still come up with a reason for me to go back to the 1-2-3-4 patterns, I'd love to hear it.

That's my roundabout way of explaining why I don't practice scales on one string. I know how to play a scale on one string, but it's not something that I need to do in any of the songs I play, so I don't do it. I can play a minor scale using a span of only four frets. I can move between the various 'three note per string' patterns, and use exercises that basically turn them into 'five note per string' patterns.

You do not have to ever practice scales on one string to learn the fretboard. Visualising them is enough.

What's a good analogy... Hmmm... let's say tossing a coin. If you toss a coin 1,000 times you'll expect to see roughly the same number of heads as tails. You may end up with 470 heads and 530 tails, but the tendency will be for each to show up close to half the time. Now, that's good knowledge to have, (especially if you're a gambler), but you don't need to toss a coin 1,000 times to reinforce that knowledge and to reap the benefits of it.

[Perfect4th]

Hey, Rayman: I've dropped my stick in front of a dead horse.

Peace!

Hey ledzepplinSG5: Take many approaches to the art you've chosen and you'll find what works best for you. Rayman answered your specific question in his first post. Go with it. I was only trying to broaden the picture of what a scale was.

Peace!

[steveycrow]

OK, I've only done this once and it's a bit hit and miss - try this link (if it works)>>>>>>>>


http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.html

if it doesn't work, just write it down and tap it in manually. It's got a scale generator for oloads of scales, including blues and shows the pattern all over the board.

[Rayman]

Hmmm... I can see plenty of stuff about taking your guitar apart and putting it back together on that site, but no scale generator...

[steveycrow]

ok mate

go into the link again, click on home. then at the top of the home page is a digital type bit of writing in the top right corner. click on + or - until it says 'theory and technique' or something like that. then hey presto, you will go to the scale generator.

i admit it's not the best laid out site, but it's there, i promise.

hope it helps.

[wild_axeman]

steveycrow's sig. :

The Church of Man Love is such a holy place to be - Bowie

WTF ?

[Perfect4th]

Originally posted by wild_axeman
WTF ?

:) It's a Bowie quote! I don't we were meant to understand. It is definitely one I DON'T want to understand! :D

Peace!

[wild_axeman]

Oh okay,I don't want to know either then.

I was just curious - DID BOWIE REALLY SAY THAT?

I won't bring it up again :D

[Perfect4th]

Probably did. But I'd bet he doesn't know what he meant when he said it! :) (Whispering) "...drugs..." ;)

JK - Bowie is an OK rocker - not my style but OK.

Peace!

[wild_axeman]

yeah it is Bowie so he probably did say it.

And umm...i'm sure he knew what it meant even when sober,lol :D

:D ...be afraid...be very afriad !

:( ...CALL THE POLICE ! ! ! ! (no,not the band)

[steveycrow]

Hi guys, I've been on my holiday so I'm a little late replying. Bowie did say that in his song 'Moonage Daydream'on the Ziggy Stardust album. I just think it is a funny quote (I accept it is very camp, if not gay, but I don't have a problem with that). It sounds like you don't know, but Bowie was bi sexual in the 70's. He use to swing with his then wife, Angie.

Strange man, but I like his music, and his sexuality does me no harm, each to their own!!!

[wild_axeman]

Yeah I knew Bowie was ac-dc and um....yeah.

Alot of those rock stars were really weird imo but whatever.

BTW steveycrow here's the link you tried to post scale maker (http://www.guitarnuts.com/theory/scalemaker/scalemaker.php)

[steveycrow]

Hey! Bingo! That's a lot easier than the one I put on.

Cheers.

[ledzeppelinSG7]

speakin of people being ac/dc, does any one know how ac/dc got their name? i never heard of them bein gay.

[steveycrow]

I'm not a fan of ac/dc, but they apparently got their name from the back of a vacuum cleaner (ac/dc stands for alternating current/direct current in electricity terms). they didn't realise it is used to denote bi sexual people at the time.

god i'm sad. why do i pick up these useless facts?

of course, i may have just dreamed the whole thing and could be completely wrong, but i'm sure that's what i heard once.