position playing

[bonsy]

Ive been concentrating on visual playing ie trying to identify the notes as i play them and what interval they are to the root and i ve come across an article in a book im reading about position playing.The article is refering to playing 12 different major scales in the 2nd position ie c scale beginning on f through to the f scale beginning on f ,the idea being to stay in this position spanning 6 frets and cover the 12 major scales. The article then goes on to say after a while , mentally visualise the fretboard patterns, as you gain confidence ,and as your left hand technique becomes smoother (right hand in my case ) let go of the idea you are practicing an exercise and allow a musical flow to develop! would this be a correct route to take? assuming visualise the patterns means to stop looking at the fret board. cheers.

[Malcolm]

Originally Posted by bonsy

Ive been concentrating on visual playing ie trying to identify the notes as i play them and what interval they are to the root and i ve come across an article in a book im reading about position playing.The article is refering to playing 12 different major scales in the 2nd position ie c scale beginning on f through to the f scale beginning on f ,the idea being to stay in this position spanning 6 frets and cover the 12 major scales. The article then goes on to say after a while , mentally visualise the fretboard patterns, as you gain confidence ,and as your left hand technique becomes smoother (right hand in my case ) let go of the idea you are practicing an exercise and allow a musical flow to develop! would this be a correct route to take? assuming visualise the patterns means to stop looking at the fret board. cheers.

I agree with what your book is saying.
Two positions are all a person needs. I see no reason to move between 5 positions beyond it looks cool AND does let you learn where the notes are and realize we have a four octave instrument. Now to the other point.....

As long as we think and use patterns we get trapped in the pattern, that leads to a stream of notes which turns into noise. Melody which breaths and lives using pauses and phrases happens when we think notes (notice I did not say intervals) I'd point you to one melody note per lyric word. Tying you lyrics to your melody should help with the phrasing. We talk in phrases, thus, our ears like to hear phrases over a steady stream of words or notes....

If you are into instrumental improvisation and there are no lyrics - think two close notes followed by a skip of at least a 3rd.

...let go of the idea you are practicing an exercise and allow a musical flow to develop!

If you land on a 7th go up scale, if you land on a 4 or 6 go down scale. If you land on a 1, 3, 5 or 2 move which ever way you think best. That in itself helps with the phrasing. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0iZ1j00wSU
I have come to believe the melody develops from what you do after the skips, i.e. that up scale down scale thing. You want a wave action, 20 foot breakers, NO, 2 to 4 foot waves, YES.

IMHO look at your fretboard as long as you need to. After awhile you will not need to be looking. I think by visualizing the fretboard the book is speaking of visualizing the fretboard in your mind's eye.

Good luck.

[bonsy]

Thanks Malcolm, from what I can gather , if I play C to D I should then move to maybe F or A , and then to the nearest chord tone ie F to E the third , or A to G the 5th, not F to G ? I think it was previously mentioned that F likes to resolve to E and B to C, I think IanB mentioned this while discussing cadences. ie C to G7 . Is this what your link is saying? I do realise the choices are up to the individual when improvising . cheers.

[Jed]

Bonsy,

I'm guessing the book you refer to is based on the work of William Leavitt's "Mordern Method For Guitar" aka the "Berklee Method".

While Leavitt shows 12 fingering patterns that cover every key from any position on the neck, most players use some subset of those 12 fingering patterns. My personal preference has been to utilize the 7 most common forms so that I would be able to cover 7 keys or modes from any position. Using these 7 fingerings, I only have to shift position by one fret to cover every key.

I spoke with a prof at Berklee that studied with Leavitt about the 7 vs 12 fingerings. He told me that Leavitt's 12 forms were the complete system but that even Leavitt doesn't use them all. So don't take the 12 fingering too much to heart. The minimum you can get by with is 5 forms, I find the 7 is much more flexible, but I don't even bother with the 5 least common of Leavitt's forms.

cheers,

[bonsy]

hi jed , are you suggesting I only use the 7 major shapes used as modes c to b and leave what are referred to as gb db ab eb bb ? incidentally 3 of these shapes are the same as e b and f just beginning on f instead of f". cant say who this article is by the top of page is titled getting around the fretboard the bottom how to play guitar! I photocopied it from a library book a while back . cheers.

[Jed]

Bonsy,

All I can say is that in my experience, seven of those forms are very valuable while the remaining five forms are little more than hand exercises in my opinion. The remaining five forms cover all of the same note locations as do the seven main forms with a simple positional shift of 1 fret.

I really like the idea of the seven major scale forms - they lead to an overlap of 2/3 of the note locations from one form to the next - reinforcing the concept of alternate note locations, thinking in terms of the larger fretboard pattern (rather than just in terms of 4 or 5 frets at a time). In addition the seven forms address all the possible variations without the large gaps common in the 5 form approach. Some won't see the value of seven versus five forms - I'm ok with that. But in my experience it's always beneficial to look deeper, look for variations of fingerings and note locations - and basically learn the fretboard inside out. Nothing exudes confidence like knowing the fretboard and knowing your chord spellings and triad arpeggios. YMMV

cheers,

[bonsy]

Originally Posted by Jed

Bonsy,

All I can say is that in my experience, seven of those forms are very valuable while the remaining five forms are little more than hand exercises in my opinion. The remaining five forms cover all of the same note locations as do the seven main forms with a simple positional shift of 1 fret.

I really like the idea of the seven major scale forms - they lead to an overlap of 2/3 of the note locations from one form to the next - reinforcing the concept of alternate note locations, thinking in terms of the larger fretboard pattern (rather than just in terms of 4 or 5 frets at a time). In addition the seven forms address all the possible variations without the large gaps common in the 5 form approach. Some won't see the value of seven versus five forms - I'm ok with that. But in my experience it's always beneficial to look deeper, look for variations of fingerings and note locations - and basically learn the fretboard inside out. Nothing exudes confidence like knowing the fretboard and knowing your chord spellings and triad arpeggios. YMMV

cheers,

Nearly missed this one Jed thanks very much.

[wild_axeman]

Originally Posted by bonsy

Ive been concentrating on visual playing ie trying to identify the notes as i play them and what interval they are to the root and i ve come across an article in a book im reading about position playing.The article is refering to playing 12 different major scales in the 2nd position ie c scale beginning on f through to the f scale beginning on f ,the idea being to stay in this position spanning 6 frets and cover the 12 major scales. The article then goes on to say after a while , mentally visualise the fretboard patterns, as you gain confidence ,and as your left hand technique becomes smoother (right hand in my case ) let go of the idea you are practicing an exercise and allow a musical flow to develop! would this be a correct route to take? assuming visualise the patterns means to stop looking at the fret board. cheers.

That's an excellent way to go,albeit alot of work.

"The deeper you go the higher you fly.
The higher you fly the deeper you go."

^ Beatles' -> Everybody's Got Something To Hide, Except for Me and My Monkey!